Will Wight, New York Times Best-Selling Author of 'Cradle'
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In which we ramble on.
And by we, I mean me.

You should read Iron Prince

11/10/2020

106 Comments

 
Now this is what I'm talking about.

I've seen Iron Prince, by Bryce O'Connor and Luke Chmilenko, called "Cradle meets Ender's Game."

Yep. That's what it is.

Imagine, if you will, Lindon going through the space combat training in Ender's Game using the level-up system from Solo Leveling. That's the pitch, okay? That's an accurate general vibe.

But that's just what gets you in the door.

This is a sci-fi setting, and what a setting. The authors had to have put in a truly staggering amount of work into making this world feel lived-in and complete.

This whole story is about a guy named Rei learning to cyborg fight using a super-advanced semi-magical weapon that bonds with him and gives him superhuman upgrades that he has to gradually unlock.

How does he unlock them, you ask? By working himself to death...and fighting.

There's combat, tons of combat, so much combat that you might be like "But Will, isn't that too much combat?" After I put up one finger to silence your beautiful mouth, I would whisper "No. And how dare you."

Because it really isn't. Each fight is tactical and crunchy, not to mention visually spectacular, but almost all the battles also teach you something about the combat system and the world, have high emotional stakes for the main character, and advance the plot in some way.

You know how some stories, including some stories written by me, have fights that are just there to BE fights and don't really seem necessary to the plot or the emotions of the characters?

That is almost entirely absent here. The authors go to great lengths to make sure that the stakes of each battle are clearly laid out.

Now, I did say almost entirely absent. I'll get to that. But you can afford one or two fights that aren't strictly necessary when you have so...much...page space.

Oh, did I not mention it's eleven hundred pages long?

This is a thicc one, ladies and gentlemen.

For being the size of the first three books of Cradle, it also has progression appropriate for that length. Rei starts buried beneath the bottom of the barrel and desperately claws his way to the top.

Only, of course, for you to realize that the "top" is really just the beginning.

Whenever I recommend a book, I try to be fair enough to share its weaknesses as well. I want you to hear my passion for the story, but I don't want you to think I'm saying it's perfect. No story is, so I'll get into the drawbacks in just a second.

Right after I reiterate that these were but tiny ticks on the back of a majestic tiger. Okay? None of these problems remotely held me back from giving this book my coveted golden W sticker of approval.

Cons:

1.) While most of the fights are necessary, some aren't.

There are a few fights we watch that are just fights for the sake of fights. As a rule of thumb, when nobody whose name you already know is competing, it's safe to skim the fight.

2.) The technical fight descriptions can sometimes be too detailed.

Is this just a sub-heading of the first one? Maybe it should be 1a.

Anyway, even the great fights are described blow-by-blow. Which is for the most part to the book's overwhelming benefit, but some contests go on a lot longer than they perhaps should because we see every single blow.

3.) A handful of minor dialogue issues.

Now, I think the dialogue as a whole in this book is actually pretty strong. Characters come across as relatable but professional, motivated and educated, and convey their emotions clearly and believably.

But there are some times when a line falls flat here and there, some characters who sound a little too much like one another, frequent uses of lines like "dummy" and "jerk" to tease friends, etc.

Just enough that, collectively, I thought I'd mention them as a nitpick. Nothing that puts a fly in my soup or an angry wolverine in my hat.

4.) One particular romantic sub-plot between major characters.

I don't want to get to any spoiler territory here, but this was the only part of the book that I would actually call a problem, rather than something that could perhaps be tweaked.

Essentially, one of the main character's friends starts pursuing a relationship with the antagonist even after the guy has repeatedly assaulted the main character.

This would be like if Malfoy pulled a gun on Harry in front of the whole class, and the next day Hermione asked Malfoy out. Really soured me on that character for the rest of the book.

~~~

So that's...it.

Those are the worst complaints I could come up with.

Were any of them deal-breakers? No. Not by a long margin. If I'm nitpicking about a romantic sub-plot that didn't even involve the main character, then my biggest complaint is but a gnat landing on the radiant mustache of God.

Incidentally, I enjoyed the main character's romance sub-plot. Mainly because his love interest is a cool person, I believe their chemistry together, and she does awesome things in this book with the promise of more to come in the future.

Here's my Pros list.

Pros:

1.) Book good. Read book.

This is the sort of deep analytical insight you only learn after extensive education and a long writing career.

For real, everybody, this is a good one.

People keep asking me for series that are "like Cradle" and I'm like "Eeeehhhh...a lot of the stuff I enjoy isn't really like Cradle, and the books that are like Cradle I often don't enjoy very much."

Here it is. This is my new answer: Iron Prince is like Cradle, and it's really good, and you should read it if the premise sounds at all appealing to you.

Personal Bias Disclaimer: I shared this book when it came out a month ago on Facebook, because I thought the cover looked cool and I trusted Bryce and Luke enough to know that the book would at least be good. At that point, I hadn't read it.

Now I've read it. It's way better than I thought it was going to be.

I've met Bryce and Luke in real life a couple of times, and they're both stellar human beings with eyes of diamond and hearts of granite, so I do know them a bit and I do consider them my friends.

But uh...being my friend is not a guarantee that I'll like or review your book. It may be the opposite, honestly. I give pretty brutal feedback to my loved ones.

Asking me for my opinion is like dangling your bloody hand over a shark. I have way closer friends whose books I didn't recommend here because I didn't like their story enough.

If I don't love the book, I don't recommend it.

I love this book, so I recommend it.

That's Will Wight's patented one-step review test. "Did you love the book? If yes, recommend."

​-Will
106 Comments
Jake
11/10/2020 09:54:56 am

Agreed on all points, both positive and negative. Biggest offender was all of the fights at the end of the year tournament. And yeah, that romance subplot....

But overall, really really enjoyed it!

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Tyler Walker
7/10/2021 11:44:18 am

The romance subplot only seems iffy if you ignore the hints (or whatever u want to call it) about that characters family. We don't know exactly who/what the issue is but it might be cowardice on a parents part that ties to Rei, so hed have a reason to despise him, or maybe the family member died trying to save orphans, something like that.

Its presented at first like he hates him just bc hes a dick (which, he is, but doesn't seem to intend to be. We see him hating the "friend" group he develops but seeming unable to grasp how to handle the situation from there), but then he is pissed that his friends did what they did (and makes it very very clear that they know).

If he was just into the person he's into bc theyre attractive, well, the book makes it clear that almost everyone with CAD is attractive and hed probably have some options.

It seems like a slightly clumsily presented (for the sake of keeping mystery) thing where the person hes interested in knows why he hated Rei, and sticks up for Rei to him still, but sees him as attractive and not the irredeemable dick that he appears to be to start.

I'm not saying that makes it fine, but the problem is that the authors handled it in a way to preserve mystery and will/wont he become a part of the group while also making the romance subplot pretty evident. If they want to preserve the "why does he hate Rei so much" they should have been more total in doing so and also in obscuring the interest between the hater and the friend.

Basically they tried too hard to hold onto their mysteries or plot twists or whatever u want to see it as, for the angle they were taking. The idea that its the dick's secret to tell rather than something that the friend would try to make peace with is absurd, imo.

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Ibri
7/10/2021 01:46:32 pm

Even if she knew where his hang ups come from it still would basically be "He is still actively an asshole to my old and good friend and violently so when he gets the chance in matches, but he is just doing that because he is handling his family history really poorly, so whatever"

mike
10/2/2021 12:12:56 pm

No, I don't like the subplot because even after the first day back in school grant straight up tells them in front of her. That he still wants to kill her best friend.

Say what you want, but it is a betrayel of their friendship.

Other than that I had no care in the world with whom she ended up with. I agree with Will 100% on his description of it.

And it really killed any enjoyment I got from her character cause now I'm just like.. but he wants to murder your best friend.

And Logan has not had a redemption arc to make this even slightly okay in my opinion.

Charles
11/10/2020 09:57:47 am

Will do!

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Carmelino Guiao
11/10/2020 10:03:52 am

Thank you. That's my next go to after I reread Wintersteel

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Matt
11/10/2020 10:03:57 am

Get Travis to narrate it and I’m sold

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Rhys
11/10/2020 10:05:35 am

Hi Willn I agree, I really enjoyed it and I was very glad you reccomended it!

Tbh I didnt mind the romance sub plot really. They're teenagers, hormonal and kinda dumb and it's not soooooo farfetched that someone might a) let their hormones take over their good sense and b) be willing to accept that someone who they are attracted to physically might be willing to change their actions.
My main problem was... spoiler here.

*** seriously spoilers****


**** I mean it! Don't read if you haven't read the book****



Is that honestly the conflict doesn't seem real. Basically we all know Rey will win in the end because he has S class growth. Why is it a shock to anyone (who knows) that he moves upwards very fast? Surely its basically inevitable. And also, surely this is the best option? Why wouldn't the AI just do this all the time? It seems like a more efficient way if raising up S class users to just give them S class growth and rubbish other stats, given how OP growth is. It just seems a little illogical to me.
Loved the book though!

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Will link
11/10/2020 10:14:09 am

Eh, I thought all that was handled fine.

**SPOILERS!**

Why is it a shock to anyone who knows about his Growth stat that he moves up very fast? It isn't. It's only unexpected to the people who don't know, but it's still exciting to the people who DO know.

As for it killing the conflict, I mean...we already knew the main character was eventually going to win in the long run. He's the main character. If he loses for good, the story ends.

But he can lose along the way, and so can Rei.

As for why the AI doesn't do it all the time, that I thought was covered very thoroughly. Even with all its processing power, it has no way of predicting what will happen.

Rei is the test case. Maybe after he proves the viability of it, that IS what's going to happen. The AI will see that the advantages outweigh the risks and everyone will have their Growth stat uncapped.

That's entirely what it's setting out to find out with Rei.

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Miles
11/10/2020 10:21:40 am

I agree. They also talked constantly about how Rei trained more than anyone at the academy. Giving someone S growth doesn't mean they'll actually achieve anything with it.

Phlinn
11/11/2020 09:49:36 am

I was under the impression that it couldn't just assign stats willy nilly, and that they were based on the person's underlying personality and characteristics. In particular, not everyone is always trying to exceed their limits like the main character is. But that may have been my version of epileptic trees to explain away a plot hole in my own mind.

There may be a better trope label for mentally invented excuses for plot holes in ways that are actually plausible, but I can't think of it and don't spend enough time on tvtropes to go searching.

Overall I agree with the review. Good book, a little too much fighting, teen level romance drama that isn't too overblown.

Now for my one complaint about this post: I still see Wintersteel as the work in the progress entry in the top right. ;)

Sean
11/14/2020 12:48:00 pm

I agree with Phinn and Will here. It was my impression that stats were at least highly influenced by the characteristics of the person getting assigned, but we also know that the MIND does try out different things with different people. Beyond just the experiment of the assignment itself though, it's been pretty effectively drilled home that Rei's growth potential represents a huge potential threat matched only by his potential as an asset. Not everyone who gets a CAD has the heroic chops of our MC. Handing that power out willy-nilly, even if stats aren't influenced by the individuals personality and characteristics, could lead to far greater chaos and instability than the Archons are presently providing.

Cole
11/27/2020 03:12:28 pm

ok will we read it...what next

Nathan
11/10/2020 10:25:05 am

Lol, thanks for putting spoilers 3 times, I literally was breezing through your comment and got to the 3rd notification before my brain kicked in and was like: "oh wait, you want to read this book"

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Alex
11/13/2020 07:19:31 pm

**More Spoilers!**

About the S ranked growth: I could be wrong on this, but it seems as though the AI doesn't actually get to control all the initial stat load outs, at least not completely, otherwise everyone that it likes would start out with one stat or another much higher than all the rest, simply because of the fact that it is easier to raise lower stats, meaning that it is objectively better to have one stat much higher at the expense of all the others. The second part is the mental strength. We know that Rei was chooses specifically because of his will to push forward and succeed, a drive that clearly isn't found in everyone, as shown by the fact that he is the one, along with the friends who he pushes to join him, who trains the most (or at least among the most) of all the students in the best military academy. Plus, the societal assumptions means that someone would be either ostracized for having a lot of really low stats, or attacked for having a really high one. This problem is compounded by the fact that growth doesn't manifest physically, meaning that someone with high growth and low everything really does look useless.

To summarize: The MIND probably hasn't done much of this sort of thing before because of a combination of a lack of really skewed load outs and a lack of really strong willed options.

(Maybe also because it has widely varying results, I.E. the guy with the really long, thin sword who was mentioned once by the lasher)

This is just my take on it, I could be totally wrong :)

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Alex K
12/1/2020 07:02:31 pm

I agree with your assessment, and just want to point out one further. There were a few mentions of rogue operators needing to be hunted and put down. If the MIND gave out S ranked characteristics to many people, it would become that much harder to hunt and kill the rogues, and nobody fighting an existential war wants to be worrying about homegrown super threats popping up in their backline, drawing forces away from the frontlines.

Wallaby Vonwise
11/25/2020 08:03:59 pm

Read it. Loved it. I very specifically super agree with Will about the one romance.

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Corey
11/10/2020 10:13:02 am

I agree as well! I picked up the book on Wills recommendation on fb. Finished all 1100 pages in 6 days, I couldn’t put it down! I agree with your opinion on the antagonist love plot. Strangely I actually do really enjoys Rei’s love plot too which is the exact opposite of how I normally feel.

Long story short: Read book. Badass robot fight scenes are always awesome!

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Will link
11/10/2020 10:24:18 am

Totally agree, Corey!

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Michael
12/29/2020 04:21:11 pm

Honestly agree with all of this. Got this on Will’s recommendation and almost literally couldn’t put it down. Devoured the whole thing in two days. It’s an absolutely fantastic book and if you enjoy Will’s writing I honestly would be shocked if you didn’t agree.
The romantic sub plot issue I do agree with for now but because the rest of the book is so sound I trust the writers to bring me back on board with it.

Clark Winegar
11/10/2020 10:29:50 am

Is this going to be a series? Or is it a stand-alone book?

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Dewald Slabbert
11/11/2020 07:20:07 am

They said that there are going to be 3 books in the series. Which still means 3000+ pages. So equivalent of 6-7 books by normal person

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William (not Wight although I am white)
11/19/2020 02:58:48 pm

Wait, so...

***SPOILERS***

The first book only covers half of his 1st year in military school... that means there will either be a massive time jump or we will only get 1.5 of his school years in the books. Maybe it's possible that they will continue the story in another series, like "Warformed: Stormgod" or something. Like maybe Warformed: Stormweaver is just the series that covers his "cadet" years. I hope there is more than just 3 books is what I am trying to say here.

Dustin
11/19/2020 04:12:50 pm

I don't know if it will have other trilogies or not, but it's clear from the little quotes at the beginning of each chapter that Stormweaver isn't going to just be what he's called in his cadet years. That's going to be his regular ring/war name.

Chris
11/10/2020 10:51:24 am

It’s good. It was a page turner. I’ll be following that series going forward.

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Laris
11/10/2020 11:02:34 am

Hi Will,
I agree on all points! Hilariously written assessment!
That being said as we obviously like the same kind of books ... such as this book or cradle which I just assume you must like 😉.
Would you give your stamp of approval to any other books of Bryce O'Connor and Luke Chmilenko?
To pass the time until a long long long long awaited book which includes the word blood in its title gets released.
Thx
Laris

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Paul
11/10/2020 11:12:00 am

Not on audible? Boo! Really wanted to check it out.

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Diana
4/11/2021 10:46:56 pm

It is now if you want to check it out. It took me three days to listen to the complete audiobook and I absolutely loved it

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MeanOldBastard
11/10/2020 12:35:44 pm

First book in a new series? I will hold off for a little bit. Let them get a few books out then I will reconsider.

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Intrigued
11/10/2020 12:51:44 pm

Already have it downloaded ready to read, but currently re-reading stormlight archive in preparation for the new one... also where is the bloodline news?!?! ( thanks for the recommendation btw)

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Matthew
11/10/2020 12:55:46 pm

Can we get more Will Wight book analysis? I am particularly curious for an analysis like this but for Mistborn. Does that already exist?

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Will link
11/10/2020 02:19:01 pm

My normal policy is to only review stuff I really, really like. Being critical of another author, even constructively critical, in public is...dicey.

I’m nervous even about what little criticism I’ve included here, in the context of a glowing five-star recommendation.

Which is an unfortunate climate to be in, because I intend my criticism only positively. But that’s why I review books so rarely.

Even if the author in question isn’t offended and reads my take in the constructive spirit it is intended, someone else might easily get offended on their behalf. Or there might be this perception that I’m trying to tear other authors down to my own benefit.

That couldn’t be further from the truth, but it’s why I try to be both honest and ...careful

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Steven Brown
11/10/2020 02:21:45 pm

Dang you and your little gnome too....ihave to go read another thick fantasy that I will no doubt enjoy and crave a sequel too as I wait for mix nix Cradle fix....I'm feeling a Little Blue.....wait that did not sound right.

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Dave
11/10/2020 02:57:46 pm

I just went through my one-step purchasing method: If Will loves it, I will buy it.

I haven’t been disappointed yet!

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Patrick
11/10/2020 03:18:46 pm

I appreciate you doing your best to help us get through the absolute hell and abject horror of having to wait for your next book to come out.

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Robert
11/11/2020 02:51:24 am

I had actually started reading this already. Care to recommend something I'm not reading next time? ;)

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Ano Nym
11/11/2020 06:13:29 am

Can anyone tell me why this book is currently not available for purchase on Amazon?

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Shawn link
11/11/2020 06:32:08 am

Yes, the item shows up under review on Amazon. A quick google search shows that means, "A high product return rate is the most common reason for an item being reviewed. Another common cause for “Item Under Review” is when buyers complained about your product doesn't match the description or the product quality is below they expected directly to Amazon."

Hmm...this is making your review suspicious...Is this remnant Will again?

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Phlinn
11/11/2020 10:01:08 am

It was on KU. This is speculation, but they might be objecting to how many pages/filler it has. They might suspect it's gaming the KU reimbursement system with people. I've never been clear on it, but apparently if you put an endnote in the first page that takes you to the last page, that counts as reading the whole book. IIRC something like that is what got Michael Scott Earle kicked of amazon publishing. It wouldn't surprise me if any time a book looks like an outlier for the month they put it under review.

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Brandon (Enkidu)
11/11/2020 10:08:15 am

I really enjoyed this book. While I DO consider myself a “Will Wight Fanboy,” I didn’t catch your recommendation, so hah! I liked it in spite of you Will! You don’t own me! But I disagree with your final nitpick.

*Spoilers!*
I really liked the side character romance. The moments happen off camera, and from a different characters perspective. Maybe they see something we don’t. And it’s not like they act on it until it’s clear their friend is ambivalent. I think the antagonist has major emotional issues, but he also has a code. Darn it, but I like me a character with a code. I’m actually more interested in seeing where that goes, as opposed to only kind of caring about the MCs romance.

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Balan
11/11/2020 10:57:04 am

I definitely agree with the rec - very solid progression

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Aaron
11/11/2020 12:22:18 pm

I just burned through Iron Prince and I gotta say, Will's description is spot on. Bought the book yesterday and read it in between working hours, just finished it about a day and several focus induced headaches later.

Ender's Game was one of my favorite books growing up - the appeal of the character personalities plus tactical breakdowns of combat was exhilarating. It's very similar to why Cradle is now my favorite series, and Iron's Prince takes both concepts, sticks them in a blender, and then throws the reader in said blender.

Now I have to wait for two series to be completed in real time. Can't believe you done this, Will

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Sword Immortal Darknorth
11/11/2020 01:00:34 pm

You know Will, usually when you do a book review you have an Amazon affiliate account set up that way you can drop an affiliate link after your review. You can scoop a few Amazon gift cards that way and immediately use them to buy more books.

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Eithan Arelius
11/11/2020 02:35:33 pm

I just now realized the context of your name, I'm ashamed it took me so long... JI NING!!!!

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Sword Immortal Darknorth (Ji Ning)
11/12/2020 06:15:43 am

You found me! After becoming a chaos lord there isn't much to do except read. So I go to alternate dimensions to find good books. Did you know there's a universe where Will is busy writing Traveler's Gate book 23?

Bryce
11/11/2020 01:16:40 pm

Agree with what you said 100%, including the romance bit

I'll add one more Con though
Both authors have multiple series going on including some with multiple authors, it could be a WHILE before book 2 is released.

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orthos the dragon
11/11/2020 02:05:13 pm

why is it under review by kindle it says you can't even purchase it because its under review.

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Sam
11/11/2020 02:16:19 pm

Will,

You broke their amazon listing. Are you happy now?

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Tacroy
11/11/2020 04:54:28 pm

I... *kinda* liked it. I mean I read the whole book, so that's saying something, but I dunno.

The thing is it's really a college sports story. There's no stakes beyond "I wanna be the best and also I'm in a really safe and nurturing environment where I can do that if I try hard enough, and also also I have a thing that literally says I'll improve super fast".

Honestly, the people in power in this novel spend most of it holding idiot balls, because if any of them had an ounce of intelligence they would have taken the main character and had him practice his ass off from the very beginning.

If Rei had the level of support he gets at the end of the book from the third chapter onwards, there wouldn't even be a story - he'd have just roflstomped everyone in his path from the get-go. And if there had been anyone with an ounce of sense in power over him, he would have had that support.

It's just annoying.

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Bradley
11/18/2020 06:47:51 pm

I totally agree, definitely a disconnect I felt from the very beginning. Like, here's a totally unique, never before seen potential, except he starts at a slightly lower level than everyone else. Guess that means he's destined to be a LOSER (you know, in spite of what a basically omniscient presence we base our entire society around says).

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Brendan
11/11/2020 06:03:16 pm

I agree with your feedback on it. It was a great book and is HUGE. My only other issue with it that annoyed me was:

***Minor spoiler***

I really didn't like the instructors looking down on him. I understand the ones that don't know his stats but the ones that do should be treating him as an investment not a risk or long shot. The fact that he rose so many levels so quickly also indicates his work ethic. I understand that the authors then tried to move it to fear of his capabilities but it just felt a bit weak for me. Anyway will be reading the next installment when it comes out.

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Zbryman
11/11/2020 06:59:34 pm

I thought it was ok but with editing they could have deleted half the book and crafted a tighter more interesting story. To me thry put all that stuff in to increase page count. It just didn't add to the story and I found myself skipping huge chunks of the book.

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Andrew Tobin
12/1/2020 03:27:58 am

Not all of them did. The ones who did were wrapped into the snobby school mindset, and he was a poor, orphan, who was short, ill and well below their standards.

My pet peeves are that MIND didn’t pop up a little more, that there was no more movement towards the fact the devices maybe kind of have personalities (the way Dent talked to hers), that there wasn’t quite enough emphasis on the “bad guy” having a background but “I can’t talk about it, it’s his story, but he has his reasons”, and we know next to nothing about the Archons, and even Dent didn’t really talk about methods to fight them.

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Dejac
11/11/2020 08:23:18 pm

Want to read it but it’s under review. Hopefully it opens up soon. Lots of other books coming out soon need to read

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Bill
11/12/2020 05:01:42 am

Excellent review, very accurate, actually skipped, two or three fights. I too hated the (my best friends abuser) romance. Other than an extra two or three fights and the silly hot, abusive guy romance, the story is a GREAT start to a series.

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John
11/12/2020 07:53:39 am

Hey Will! You should post your super critical, tear down my competition type reviews under a super tricky pseudonym that no one would figure out like "Will's Remnant". That way we could still benefit from your humor and NO ONE WOULD EVER FIGURE OUT IT WAS YOU.

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Eric
11/12/2020 03:38:12 pm

Been waiting for their sequel to a mark of kings... solid book but only really gets good at the end and there was no book 2! Patiently waiting.... then maybe I’ll read this one

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Gabriel
11/13/2020 06:56:20 am

Thanks for the recommendation. It was allright.

I don't like "growth" as a stat. It doesn't make much sense frankly. I felt like the authors put that into the narrative to justify MC's rapid progression. Plus, why doesn't everyone has high growth, as that is obviously OP.

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Zbryman
11/13/2020 10:24:13 am

Lots of books use this to an extent like the stork tower series where she is constantly getting bonuses for being the first to do something. To me the biggest issue was the inconsistent growth. Do nothing and get beat up, gain a bunch of stats. Fight with your new high level trainer, get little to nothing. The growth was too random and not under the characters control. The other issue is the lack of interaction with the AI. Gets special attention with the AI that can talk to thousands at the same time. Tells him he is special and then ignores him.

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Andrew Tobin
12/1/2020 03:30:53 am

If the Growth was more emphasised as possible mutation, as it was mentioned at one point that someone had grown in an unpractical way, then it would help more. Even if our hero developed a mutation, that healed as he overcame it.

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Joe
11/13/2020 01:59:05 pm

So I just finished reading it. I thought it was good. As soon as you said there was a lot of crunchy combat I knew I wanted to get it on audiobook so I was disappointed when there wasn't an audio version available. I have a tendency to just skip to the end of parts like that out of sheer excitement to see what happens so I like to read books heavy with those scenes in an audio format so I just can't. I'll probably still get the book on audible when/if it comes out on there (I assume it will but you never know).

Upon reading I thought your Harry Potter metaphor was a bit of an exaggeration. I knew as soon as they were introduced who Malfoy and Hermione were so from your metaphor when she went after him after Harry got jumped I was worried we were going to find them necking, which absolutely would have ruined the character for me but what actually happened was not nearly as bad as what you made it seem to be, in my opinion.

Not trying to excuse the guy, he's being racist (classist, name-ist?) against Rei and whatever happened in his family to make him that way is no excuse for how he acts.

I also don't like that the authors seem to be going for a standard 'earn the tough but fair asshole's respect' thing by the end. Rei does not need to earn his respect. And he's not tough but fair either. That said I think once he's around people who are less awful than his current friend group he'll be more palatable.

There were more typos than I was expecting but that is what it is.

I liked that some of the epigraphs came from the future, really helped me get through the emotionally rough parts of the present.

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Andrew Tobin
12/1/2020 03:33:25 am

I’m not even sure it’s “classist.” I think he’ll be linked to the guy who abandoned his post, with half a planet dying. Either his family dying, or his father being that guy... that’s why he doesn’t like Rei initially being a “coward” as he runs and uses tricks to overcome his weaknesses.

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A Passing Stranger
11/14/2020 05:04:49 am

Thanks for this recommendation, Will! I read and really enjoyed the book, and I doubt very much I'd have found it without getting prompted by this blog post. :D

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Justin
11/14/2020 10:45:33 am

Very good read. I also was a little turned off by that same romantic subplot but my biggest nitpick was that the authors (or editors) missed that every time they wanted to write the word quiet they wrote quite. And every time they wanted to say quite they wrote quiet. It kinda pulled me out of my immersion a little.

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Sean
11/14/2020 12:56:37 pm

Haha I noticed that too. I gave it five stars, because I really enjoyed the story, but there were a fair number of typo's, missing words / incomplete sentences, etc.

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Jernik
11/14/2020 09:00:46 pm

I thought this was some well written progression fic, but after looking up some reviews, I see that Luke Chmilenko was the LitRPG author that accused someone of plagiarism with no evidence and then bullied him with his platform of fans off of Amazon. I'm afraid I won't be able to continue reading this series and I'm a bit sad that Will says he's such a good guy.

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theorist9
11/15/2020 12:18:58 am

For those who would prefer an audiobook version: On Oct. 1, O'Conner posted on FB that there will be an audiobook "narrated by the great Luke Daniels! will hopefully be out in December/January!"

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Radish professional
11/15/2020 02:46:16 pm

I like Iron Prince, Will. Thanks for the recommendation.

I'll say that I didn't mind the love thing with the protagonist's best friend too much (certainly not as much as I worried I would after reading the review).

The big issue for me was the fight descriptions! Any fight with a main character: great! But why all the tournament fights with random people?

I think the writers sort of fell in love with their "magic" system and descriptiveness. As King says, "Kill your darlings." They could have cut about 200 pages and the story would have been the better for it.

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James
11/15/2020 03:16:34 pm

So I took your advice and read it. It certainly is a page turner. But it’s not exactly a good book.

The editing is sloppy and the typos annoying. There really shouldn’t be typos in a modern book given grammar checkers. But more importantly the basic premise is confusingly flawed; in the distant future, to prepare soldiers for war with an incredibly advanced alien enemy at the edge of the known universe, they engage in 1-on-1 exhibition combat with swords and axes with _zero_ study of the alien enemy. How modern warfare has devolved to medieval weapons is left to the imagination of the reader, but I have to confess I failed to concoct a plausible scenario.

As for characters, well they’re flat and predictable. How many times can her hand rest on his leg, leaving a warm and tingly spot, before two teenagers take some action? Apparently a lot. Heads up: she blushes every time and looks away. And the protagonist never sacrifices anything or even has an apparent choice to make. Ever. He just tries hard and tolerates being beat up really well.

Progression and pacing are well executed, and because I’m a sucker for mediocre sci-fi I’ll likely read a sequel, but this was not really a notably good book in my view.

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Dejac
11/15/2020 06:33:20 pm

Got the book and read it in two days. Was very entertaining.

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Finder Wyvernspur
11/16/2020 11:10:19 am

Diversion from the book recommendation, is Bloodlines your next book?

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Jeff
11/16/2020 04:23:18 pm

I blame you, Will. I read this book on your recommendation. I started last night and finished about an hour ago. Now, I want more. Therefore, I blame you for my having to wait for the next book in this series.

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Jeff
11/16/2020 04:25:56 pm

P.S. Any more recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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Dustin
11/18/2020 02:01:37 pm

While I agree wholeheartedly with saying that Iron Price was a highly entertaining read, I'm not seeing the parallels you're drawing in the stories mentioned. What you said is not accurate in the least. I could say it's like Starship Troopers meets Lord of the flies and be just as accurate. Any similarities are so superficial that you could pick just about any books in existence and use them with the same authority as comparisons.
I will definitely have to agree that the relationship between his best friend and the douche master really was illogical. I know there seems to be something that was said between the two of them, but short of it being him telling her that Rei raped and murdered his parents in front of him, and showing video proof, she shouldn't have any sympathetic feelings for him. No matter what the sob story was, who really gives a damn? Sure it doesn't make it any less terrible of a thing to have happened if a serial murderer was molested as a child, but come on, it's not going to make you detest him any less.

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Bradley
11/18/2020 06:42:56 pm

*** SPOILERS ***


I actually liked the romance sub-plot, because I think that aforementioned antagonist actually is potentially a quite complex character. Although it's understandably off putting to have one of the protagonist's "entourage" switch sides in such a way, I personally am interested enough in the antagonist's backstory and clearly saw this as a sort of bridge to where the two sides ultimately reconcile. Again, I understand the dislike but, should it be properly developed, I actually am a big fan of that particular sub-plot. Also as another commenter so eloquently put, I am in fact a sucker for a character with a code as well.

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Decorus
11/18/2020 07:18:35 pm

Sigh having read the book 3 times now it’s pretty good.

Spoilers..

I have a few objections to the comments.
1. There is no Romance Sub Plot. The Primary Antagonist ends his last fight which he loses by asking if the main character is dating the two main female characters in the book. So Logan is not going around dating the best friend of the main character. Does she have a type that matches Logan? Yes is she pursuing him nope. Does it look like they will be a couple? Yes. She has an interest in him since he beat the crap out of the people who beat up the main character and is actively discouraging anyone from tryin that again. And the main character wants the former Primary Antagonist to join their team for the External School Tournament.

2. The Primary Antagonist also beats the everliving crap out of his own hanger ons after they ambush the main character. He then spends the rest of the book making sure nobody lays a finger on the main character. He does not pursue any kind of action or harassment against the main character. The only fights between them happen in class and in the tournament.

3. The Archons who are an artificial life form use reactive energy shields as a defense. As they explain it in the book they cause massive amounts of damage when struck unless of course you are equipped with the same tech. It basically comes down to advanced alien tech stops projectiles and energy weapons requiring humans to run up and beat them to death using melee weapons. It’s explained, but it requires suspension of disbelief to accept.

4. The stats for the devices seem to be based off the person who gets the device. How ever I will not his utter lack of cognition attribute based on what we know about him makes zero sense. Is it offset, because he has that growth stat maxed out?

5. The AI seems to be testing if I give the device to Steve Rogers types who have the drive and heart to be device users, but don’t meet the physical requirements what will happen. The main character’s medical condition is largely responsible for his lack of physical enhancements when he receives his device.

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Dustin
11/18/2020 08:39:35 pm

You can disagree about the romance sub-plot all you want, but that doesn't make it true. It's extremely light on the romance sub-plot, but there is definitely 2 distinct different romantic sub plots. They don't actually have to be in a romantic relationship yet for a romantic sub-plot to exist.

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Decorus
11/19/2020 03:04:45 pm

For Romance to exist there has to be actual written interaction between two characters. Nothing in the book indicates she has moved beyond the gazes at his giant pecks from afar. Also going to point out this would not be the first time she has dated and broken the heart of someone who bullied her best friend. So it’s got a long way to go to hit actual romance.

Dustin
11/19/2020 04:08:26 pm

It explicitly states they'd be exchanging messages since the incident. And there are many hints that are dropped. She also explicitly stated that she wasn't going to do the whole date and dump to hurt him thing with this one.

Dustin
11/18/2020 08:43:51 pm

In regards to your #2, while it may not technically be a fight, he physically grabs the MC by the collar, presses him against the wall, and says threatening rude comments to him the next time he sees him after he beat the crap out of his own minions. He should have no redemption in her eyes until he comes to the realization that he was a total ass hat and apologizes to the MC. He's still rude at the very end even if less so.

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BlackMage
11/19/2020 07:30:24 am

Finished the book and gave a 5-star review on Amazon. Took me two weeks as it was a whopping 1K+ pages and that's with reading till 3 or 4 am at night. Hopefully, we will get an Audible version.

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Thad
11/19/2020 10:50:35 am

Great recommendation! Thanks for making me totally unproductive this week. . . :)

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Schwartzcof
11/21/2020 10:31:25 am

Well Will, I'd like to thank you for destroying my week as I did little else but devour this book. I loved it overall and I'm really looking forward to future installments in the series.

I agree with your opinion on the romantic subplot between the antagonist and Rei's friend, I would have preferred to see that cut out personally. It felt like a betrayal to me, even though the relationship didn't go that far by the end of the book (not yet at least).

And yeah... the detail in those fights scenes, especially the ones between combatants that had no bearing on the storyline whatsoever. That could have been abbreviated.

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Jason
11/23/2020 07:22:52 pm

I read the book! I read The Wings of War and enjoyed it, so I wasn't surprised that the book was good. Did you catch the reference to Raz in one of the quotes?

Criticisms:

***MINOR SPOILERS***

- Too much fighting towards the end.
I do not think that Rei needs to have less fights, it's that the book could have gone without so much of the fights in the tournament rounds. Three fights seemed to be described each day, and it gets dull quickly. Agreed. However, this issue is only prevalent toward the very end. I would have liked to see more fighting from Rei, and not the

-The Viv Grant... mess
I think it was reasonable of the two authors to put this together (since their ambition seemed to be to have Viv glue the Rei and Grant together), but it doesn't entirely work. For one, Viv's shock at Grant beating his friends up does not work. On the bright side, it's always a risk to do these things, and I think the two pulled it out... sort of well considering that the plot could have ruined the whole thing. I would 7/10 agree with yours - it's a issue that would have been hard to avoid.

Good:

-Detailed Fights
Each fight is detailed and many pages long. The problem is that there are too many of them. I significantly enjoy fights including Rei as compared to the others

-Rei and Aria pair is good
There isn't much of anything I can say, apart from the fact that I expected Aria and Rei to end up together. It's quite slow, taking Rei 1100 pages or so to ask her on a date, which is good - it's not rushed. Aria also makes an excellent addition to the friend group.

Hopefully, unlike Ender's Game (which I thoroughly enjoyed, it does not die of cardiac arrest on the second book)

1100 pages! 2 days!
4.6 stars / 5!

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Dustin
11/24/2020 01:48:03 pm

I wouldn't say the second book died. I still enjoyed it. It just wasn't a continuation of the original story. Ender's Game is a stand alone novel. The one's that follow are just stories that occur with some of the same people in the same book universe.

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Jason
11/29/2020 09:31:30 am

You could say that, but in my opinion it was a far cry from the first book. I finished the first book in two days. I however, do agree that the second book had no large influence on the first, with the first being more of a standalone. However, I was still disappointed with the second book; I lost interest only a third of the way through. I think Orson was pushed too hard to write a book quickly. It goes to show - quality over quantity.

stephen e
11/24/2020 10:07:37 am

I'm almost a 3rd of the way in and I'm enjoying it. I like how the people around the main character are more positive than you expect them to be. There are still difficult people, but there are more reasonable characters with better criticism thinking skills than one would expect from this kind of story.

Thanks, Will

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Kirby
11/26/2020 12:22:59 pm

Hi Will,

Big fan, absolutely loved the addition of some Chinese (East Asian) culture in the Cradle series.

I just finished reading The Iron Prince. What pushed me over the edge was me reading this blog post. I started 2 days ago, and somehow blew through the 1100-odd pages. I don't think I read Rhythm of War by Sanderson as fast as I read through The Iron Prince. So thank you, for your solid suggestion.

***POTENTIAL CRADLE SPOILERS***

And can I tap into your book suggestive skills once more, what should I read next? I love the ostracized, underpowered, underdoggy, and seemingly weak MCs. Lindon and his journey was well crafted and I especially loved the 3rd party perspectives on just how much of a "monster" he became as the story went on. And The Iron Prince did something similar, ableit not as pronounced. And I'll save you some trouble and list out some of my favorites and already completed books.

Thanks in advance and keep up the great work! I'll probably read the Cradle series for the 3rd time in the next couple days.

Read books:
The Stormlight Archive, Brandon Sanderson
Mistborn, Brandon Sanderson
The Wheel of Time, Robert Jordan & Brandon Sanderson
The Farseer Trilogy, Robin Hobb
The Temeraire Series, Naomi Novik
The Elder Empire, you ofc

Reply
stephen e
11/29/2020 12:24:01 pm

I finished the book a few days ago. It was really well done overall. They could definitely use an editor or two though

Reply
Robin
11/30/2020 05:42:42 pm

What are your plans for book 9 of the cradle series? Finished book 8 in 3 days, can't wait for more!

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Lute
12/2/2020 02:31:22 pm

Thank you for the recommendation! I couldn't put it down.

Have you ever read the Reborn Apocalypse series by L M Kerr? I'm curious what you would think of it.

Reply
Michael Haedt
12/2/2020 03:28:34 pm

fantastic recommendation Will. Loved the book, and I must agree it has some very cradle like feels to it.

I think the romance thing was a bit more... over warned, than necessary. Yes it felt a little odd/off but I expected way worse than what it actually was. There are several points where she states that she's in for that big bad boy type and heavily attracted to powerful figures. The subject of her romance very much fits her archetype. You're points are completely valid and I get it, but I just didn't feel all that terrible for it and I feel that it actually fit with the feel of the character even if it was kind of shitty.

In a way I believe it gave her a bit of depth of character, making her her own person and not just some surrogate family/sister figure that becomes irrelevant side kick once the MC grows. She's got her own development arc. It also ties the group together in its own way setting up for book two.

Reply
Jason
12/4/2020 01:17:48 pm

Slight spoilers.

I would concur. Will's statement feels lightly over-warned, yes, but at the same time it feels like something that should not happen.

To me, it sort of feels like a quick idea that doesn't work completely - it just doesn't make much sense to be doing that.

I assume the authors were using viv as a sort of tie in between the them needing a mauler at the end.

Yes, but no. I can understand why they would try this sort of thing... but it doesn't all work. Still a very solid book though.

Reply
Dustin
12/4/2020 07:47:34 pm

I'm not saying it's not slightly in line with Viv's character, but it just happened too fast. There was no gradual getting to know and understand the guy. From all of the hints given she pretty much flips her opinion of him the instant he goes out and beats the shit out of his "friends." It's not a natural progression.

Reply
Dustin
12/4/2020 07:52:51 pm

I'm going to say one more thing real quick. Let's say a door-to-door salesman shows up at your home trying to peddle some crappy item. You tell him,"I'm not interested you need to leave" and try to shut the door. He shoves his foot in the door and slams it into your face and responds with, "But they're great!" You reply, "Oh, ok. I'll buy it then."
That nonsense is the exact same thing that happened with Viv and Grant.

Jason
12/6/2020 08:35:19 am

That's the problem. All of a sudden Viv after seeing Grant beat his friends, she's suddenly shocked and muted?

It just doesn't work.

Michael
12/6/2020 03:01:00 pm

It surprises me that the authors don’t address any psychological effects of teenagers feeling the (real even if artificially induced) pain of being stabbed, crushed, burnt or dismembered on a regular basis. I think that was my biggest disconnect.

Reply
Akura Shi Lindon Aurelius
12/8/2020 04:41:13 pm

Stop trying to distract us with other books and just release Bloodline so we can read a truly great author!

Reply
Aeres
12/10/2020 03:17:56 pm

Yeah... So... I'm disappointed that i won't get a new book earlier... But you really need a break! 😅 As an artist myself i know that being 'creative' sucks... Esp if you have to really think about it - like all the details and the like... 😅 It tends to burn you out... Really FAST! So take a break... You really deserve it! 😊

Reply
Chuck
12/25/2020 11:50:30 am

I finally got to this one. It's definitely a good read and I'd recommend it, but my biggest hope is that it makes enough that they can hire an editor for the next one. The sudden appearance of bad grammar is jarring (i.e. quite vs quiet, missing prepositions, etc.) Similarly things like counting 1, 2, 4, french fries turning into mashed potatoes mid-meal, and the 1-D vs D-1. A lot of easily correctible stuff that will hopefully get fixed by the time anyone else reads the book. Will, I hope you can give them a few tips on making a good first impression.

Reply
B
1/4/2021 07:39:50 pm

I'm loving it so far. I love how the authors are also clearly fans of light novels or anime as they slipped in a whole bunch of references throughout the book. Famous fighter Gobta Rimuru!

Reply
Katherine
2/2/2021 08:04:00 pm

So I read it and loved it. The characters, the banter, the flaws...I loved it.

On the third read-through I picked up on somethings that were kinda sloppy. The biggest was the absolute lack of explanation of the different types. Like the difference between a brawler and mauler or a lancer and a phalanx. Not having that when then there were so many other technical explanations was weird.

The book would have benefitted from a content editor.

As to the romantic subplot, it didn't bother me. Sometimes the heart wants what the heart wants. It's not like Viv isn't deeply conflicted about her attraction. Also, by the end of the book even Grant didn't much care for the company he was keeping.

As for Grant, the kid has Issues. Plural. Not your normal book trope issues but real, deeply embedded issues that impact every facet of his life without him realizing it. The kind of issues that real people walk around with every day. He is one of the better characters I have come across lately.

He isn't the only one either. Cashe and Ward are also also being ridden by their demons.

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Pete
3/19/2021 11:38:42 am

I pretty much agree with all points but will personally wait with recommendations until there is a book two. Because imo book two is the hard part for this story setup. He has super growth speed but a low starting point so he could claw his way up. Until now that is where he has reached the top of his friend group and should soon leave them behind strength wise. If not handled well that could easily destroy my interest.

Reply
Cole
4/22/2021 01:20:32 am

I agree with Will that if you’re a fan of Cradle, or just progression fantasies/Sci-Fi’s you’ll enjoy this book, but I’m not so sure I agree with his stellar review of the book. I did find this book enjoyable, and definitely agree with the comparison to a mix of Cradle and Enders Game. All of that being said, it is hard to read more than a couple hundred pages at a time. This may not seem like a huge problem, but many people that enjoy progression novels, LitRPGs, web novels and other similar genres are binge readers (as am I). So when I sat down and read this book all in one day it made me horribly frustrated with the writing and characters. All of the small problems in this book are easy to overlook and don’t have much of an impact on your reading experience if you read in “small” sections at a time, but if you try to marathon the book they add up and leave a bad taste in your mouth. If you’re going to read this book, be warned take your time because if you don’t you’re liable to end up bored in the unnecessary or tedious sections, or frustrated with the characters and their actions/dialogue.

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Diana Kaz
4/24/2021 12:59:14 pm

Ok, now that I’ve read both Iron Prince and the entire series of Cradle what do I read next? I’m lost. Checking for updates almost daily for new releases :( :( :(

Reply
Den
4/27/2021 07:34:39 pm

My only complaint... is the wait for the next one...

Reply



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