Will Wight, New York Times Best-Selling Author of 'Cradle'
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In which we ramble on.
And by we, I mean me.

The Ancestors of Cradle

11/13/2016

78 Comments

 
Have you finished both Cradle books too quickly? Do you wish there was something else you could read to scratch that itch? Are you sharpening your pitchfork right now because I'm writing something that isn't Blackflame?

Well, you're in luck!

Cradle was my humble, meager attempt to write a story in the xianxia* genre: a subcategory of Chinese novels that have grown popular on the English-speaking Internet over the last couple of years thanks to sites like WuxiaWorld and GravityTales (not to mention the hard-working, dedicated, good-looking fan translators who provide such works to lazy monolingual English-speakers like myself).

I've had a lot of people ask me if Cradle was inspired by these Chinese works, and I usually respond by saying "Absolutely!" and then listing my favorites. It's the reason why I chose to put Unsouled in the Asian Myths and Legends category of Kindle fantasy.

But after tonight, when people ask me these questions, I don't have to type out an answer every time! I can just link them back to this post! Behold, as my laziness sheds its skin to reveal its true shape!

IF YOU DON'T SEE THE REST OF THIS POST, CLICK "READ MORE"!
 First of all, some basic information:

*In a nutshell: "xianxia" is a Chinese genre blending martial arts with magic and mythology in an often fantastic setting. This is the genre in which Cradle would fall. "Wuxia" is a similar genre with a greater focus on more "realistic" martial arts and a more historical (although not necessarily truly historical) setting.

For those sticklers among you sharpening your keyboards, I'm aware that this is an oversimplification and that there's lots of overlap between the two genres. But this is the gist.

​Basically? It's magical martial arts. Even cooler than it sounds, if that's possible.

Often the protagonists start from the bottom, working their way up through a variety of adventures until they become God-King of the Universe or whatever. You can see why it appeals to me so much.

The stories tend to be very long and very light on description, with a focus on constant action. Sound good? Sound like something you might be into? In that case, here's a list of my personal favorites (in no particular order):

Against the Gods, Desolate Era, Coiling Dragon, Martial World, Spirit Realm, Heavenly Jewel Change, and Sovereign of the Three Realms, among others. I Shall Seal the Heavens, or ISSTH, is worth a mention because it's very popular and has a protagonist similar to Lindon...or so I'm told, but I haven't read it, so I can't vouch for the story myself.

Lots of these books are hosted (in English) on popular sites like WuxiaWorld and GravityTales, though many independent translators have their own sites.

And many wuxia/xianxia stories are originally written and released online at a rate of a chapter per day, which is...staggering. If I could do that with Cradle, you'd have a new book every month and change (depending on how long I made the chapters).

If you're diving in, which I do recommend, you should be aware of these three caveats, which may affect your personal enjoyment of the stories:

1.) Some of these stories treat women characters in a way that makes me uncomfortable.
     Normally this is a sense you get from occasional lines in the work, like "Every woman likes to have a man to rely on," or something similar.
     I don't have any idea how a Chinese reader takes lines like this--maybe there's cultural context I'm missing, or in the original language these lines mean something entirely different--but speaking solely for me personally, these sentiments make me uncomfortable. In part, Yerin and Suriel are my reaction against this tendency of the genre.

     Not every story does this, and it's not always overt, but it's something to be aware of. If this is a particularly sensitive issue for you, I'd recommend going to Reddit's r/NovelTranslations or a similar community and asking for works to seek out / avoid.

2.) The English has its flaws.
     Please don't treat this as any sort of dig at the translators, because they're all heroic avatars of diligence with stupendous haircuts. But any translated work is going to have elements that get lost in translation, and even the original versions of these chapters are often written in a single day. They have repetitive lines, typos, and unclear sentences in their original language, much less in English.
   Bottom line: power through it. This isn't worth getting hung up on, IMO. Don't have a heart attack if you see a sentence ending in a preposition, or if someone says the word "actually" four sentences in a row.

3.) The main character is almost always brokenly overpowered.
     This is rarely ever a deal-breaker for me, because I know what I'm getting into. But if you're diving into wuxia/xianxia novels for the first time, you should know you're not signing up to watch a guy become "moderately okay" at martial arts and then die in his sleep.
     You're strapping in to experience an underachieving but humble young man stumble upon the greatest weapon in all existence and then use that weapon to carve out the hearts of dragons, get revenge on anyone who ever wronged him, and murder his way up the power scale until he transforms himself one step at a time into a literal god who extinguishes stars with a punch.

Cradle is my attempt at adapting the strengths of the genre while steering away from what I consider to be its weaknesses (although I don't promise flawless English). Lindon won't succeed every time, and sometimes he might regret it even when he does. Plus, he's not taking this journey alone.

But if what I've described sounds awesome to you, check it out right now! There's literally millions of pages of magical martial arts out there, waiting to be devoured. By you.

-Will
78 Comments
Keith
11/13/2016 10:15:50 pm

Thanks for the insight Will. Can't wait to read more Cradle but I guess I can read some of these in the meantime.

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Will link
11/14/2016 07:24:01 pm

Let me know what you think, Keith!

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Keith
11/18/2016 04:40:32 am

So I decided to read Soulsmith again instead haha. The possibilities you showed for Lindons future, are they glimpses at the next book or a big misdirect?

I did start reading a couple of the Wuxia stories. I'm struggling with the clunky writing. I know it's a translation but it's like reading google translate sometimes.

Will link
11/18/2016 03:01:12 pm

Well, I can't complain that you decided to re-read Soulsmith.

As for whether it's foreshadowing or misdirection...how could I possibly answer that without spoilers?

The clunky writing did slow me down at first, as did the Chinese names ("Zhou Weiqing" is a mouthful, and it gets worse when you have characters with names like Zhao Yin, Zhao Yan, and Zhao Yun all in the same scene).

But some of the stories are easier to read than others, and once I got used to the clunkiness I stopped hearing it at all.

Tom
12/9/2016 03:56:15 am

I would recommend trying these

Martial World
True Martial World
Desolate Era
Tales of Demons and Gods
Against the Gods
Emperor's Domination
Transcending the Nine Heavens
Heavenly Jewel Change
I Shall Seal the Heavens


Novelupdates is a good source to check reviews. I use it everyday.

p.s. Wuxiaworld just sign a 10 years agreement with Qidian. Huge news for the Chinese fantasy novel translation community. Wuxiaworld is huge with 3 million unique visitors each months according to Alexa traffic ranking. Xianxia novels are gaining a lot of popularity with English fantasy fans and rightly so. It's a very addictive read.



Wuxiaworld Signs Licensing Agreement W/Qidian!

Every so often, I hear people express worries about Wuxiaworld’s longevity. I’m extremely proud to announce that as of a few days ago, after months of negotiations, Wuxiaworld has concluded and signed an initial 10-year translation licensing and ebook/digital publishing agreement with Qidian, the Chinese website which most of our novels originate from! While the exact terms of the contract are under nondisclosure, what I can tell you is that the exclusive licensing agreement includes a total of 20 different titles that cover almost all of the Qidian novels we have on Wuxiaworld. We look forward to continued cooperation with Qidian and other websites, and once those details are ironed out, I’ll be sure to let you know here as well.

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Matt
11/13/2016 10:58:21 pm


I'm surprised that Meng Hao from ISSTH is compared to Lindon - they have very different motives, personalities, and methods. The only striking similarity to me is that they are both extremely dedicated to cultivation.

That said, ISSTH has an excellent translator, and avoids the worst of the genres tendency to treat women poorly (mostly because it largely avoids women), so it is worth checking out!

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Joseph
11/14/2016 11:38:11 am

I find Lindon has more in common with Tavi from Jim Butcher's Furies of Calderon than with most xianxia heroes. Matter of fact, if you like the general plot of Cradle and don't mind changing cultures to Roman, FoC is a finished 6 book series to enjoy while waiting on Lindon's exploits.

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Will link
11/14/2016 07:33:06 pm

I can see the similarities between Lindon and Tavi, though I'm not sure Codex Alera is similar to Cradle.

Still good, though. My one complaint is that the magic system got boiled down slightly more every book, until it goes from "really cool elemental servitors" to "generic elemental magic system."

Otherwise, though, great stuff.

Will link
11/14/2016 07:31:00 pm

Deathblade seems like an awesome guy, and I know ISSTH gets praised to high heavens (ba-dum-psh), but I could never get past the first few chapters. I should give it a better try, though.

As for Meng Hao, people seem to reference him as similar to Lindon in that he's trying to think his way into unusual solutions instead of just brute-forcing his way through, like Lindon does.

I can't verify that, having not read ISSTH, but that seems to be the reasoning there.

It does confuse me a little, because MOST xianxia protagonists seem to be clever, and they usually make an effort to think their way into greater gains. Nie Li from TDG and Yun Che from ATG come to mind.

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Jacob Carasso
11/16/2016 10:31:23 am

I would REALLY recommend ISSTH because it is one of the most well written books in the genre. There are also so other really nice stories out there.
Some other wuxia/xianxia websites I would recommend:
http://moonbunnycafe.com/
http://volaretranslations.com/
http://www.xianxiaworld.net/

Will link
11/16/2016 08:02:02 pm

Does Moon Bunny Cafe translate Japanese stuff as well? Because I feel like I read some of their light novels.

I've tried XianXia World in the past and I didn't find anything I particularly liked, but Volare is a new one for me! Thanks! Any particularly good stories?

Dylan Grossman
4/15/2019 12:12:53 pm

I couldnt get into ISSTH either. It was just too dark and plodding for me. I recommend LoHP if you havent read it. Super interesting power system there. Also Fishing the Myriad heavens is amazing albeit the translations stopped at like the best part.

Leandre Honore
5/5/2020 04:41:43 am

i almost feel like will is eithan right now

Ben
11/13/2016 11:15:02 pm

I've read my fair share of xianxia stories, and love your take on the genre with Cradle. I feel like you've got a great handle on the mix of the original tropes and themes of the genre, while still being a book that is definitely yours in tone and style. It's also really nice to read a story like this where English was the original intended language.

I also like that Lindon, unlike most protagonists in the genre, has to work hard and earn every step of his advancement. He's not a genius born once every thousand years, he isn't blessed by the gods (unless you count Suriel; I don't in this case), he doesn't seemingly rank up with every breath he takes. He fights and scrapes for every bit of advancement. It's very refreshing.

I've long been a fan of authors like Sanderson, Rothfuss, Weeks- and am currently awaiting your new works just as much as theirs. Probably even moreso with Cradle. Keep up the good work.

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Will link
11/14/2016 07:36:25 pm

Thanks, Ben!

I definitely wanted to do my version of the classic xianxia story, and I relish the opportunity to do whatever I want with the world and the magic system.

A number of my frustrations come from "this would be so much more impactful if the main character had any chance of losing whatsoever," and "this story wasn't originally written in English, so I know I'm missing something significant here."

Fortunately, I can change both of those things by doing it myself!

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Ben
11/15/2016 09:57:22 am

I think establishing a big, near impossible goal right from the start for Lindon was a great call too. Too often in xianxia/wuxia, it feels like there's not really an endgame in mind through much of it. Protagonists get stronger simply for the sake of..well, getting stronger. As if 'becoming more powerful' was the highest calling for character motivation (granted, these are often male power fantasies). Too many authors just hand wave it as 'just the way it is' in this genre. If you're a korean or chinese xianxia author, it's like you're issued a checklist of tropes that must be hit in the course of your story if you want to sell to your demographic. Same as if you do high fantasy over here- elves who love nature, check. Dwarves who love rocks, check. Halflings who are childlike, check. It's so very restricting and leads to stories that feel stale.

It's got to be kind of liberating to come in as an outsider of sorts. It's ike the author equivalent of being a xianxia protagonist. Coming into a genre where so many do it 'the traditional' way, but getting to blaze your own trail. Take the best of the genre, remove the impurities, and refine it til the end product is 'pure as gold'.

Will link
11/15/2016 10:59:17 am

Showing the high end of the power scale was important to me, because it fundamentally affects what you expect out of the story. Like you said--real xianxia authors can get away with it because it's an expected trope of the genre, so you often just assume they're going to be picking their teeth with planets by the end.

Also, it's kind of funny, but I had come up with Suriel and Ozriel and the Abidan way before anything else I wrote. But they were an extreme high end of the power scale, so I knew they needed to be paired with an extreme low scale and a series that could be long enough to bridge the gap.

So then when I started wanting to write xianxia, I quickly realized that I was starting with an extreme low power scale that needed a high end. It was fun to blend the two together.

And yeah, it's great being an outsider! I don't feel hampered by genre restrictions or reader expectations, and more than anything I can go pretty much wherever I want with the series. It's a liberating feeling.

James J link
11/14/2016 04:51:13 pm

Reminds me of the anime Tenga toppa gurren lagaan,
Even though it's a mecha anime, it has a very meek, down on himself main character that becomes godlike at the end, Like literally throwing galaxies at the enemy.

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Will link
11/14/2016 07:36:46 pm

TTGL is one of my favorite shows of all time.

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH

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jim
11/14/2016 07:01:08 pm

I'm reading/skimming "Blue silver" and getting a little (very) disenchanted because every "struggle" (I don't think there are any to be honest... maybe feeling "the worst pain of his life" every chapter when he advances a power level) seems like it's solved by revealing a secret power the main character just activated.

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Will link
11/14/2016 07:43:49 pm

Blue Silver? Isn't that the name of a translation group?

I don't know what all they do, but the only one of theirs I've read was Douluo Dalu, which I...liked, I guess?

I enjoyed the spirit system, and I liked the fact that it has a whole cast instead of just one guy. Spirit rings are great, and I love them as a visual reminder of cultivation level.

That said, the main character starts with every advantage and only ever gains more. Plus, the skill system is WAY too much like a video game for my tastes.

And I love things that are like video games. So that's saying a lot.

But when ranking up a skill increases the slow effect by 30% and the area of effect by ten meters, I have to say...that's hard for me to swallow in a real-world scenario. Who measures the 30% increase? How can you tell?

What does a 20% buff to "attack damage" mean in real terms when your enemies are real, and not video game enemies with HP? This is a world where it's possible to conjure thorns to scratch your enemies, so let's say you do that with a 20% buff to damage. Did the thorn penetrate further into the flesh? Did it cause more pain? How do you measure a 20% increase in pain?

That honestly bothered me more than Tang San's overwhelming power.

Anyway, I just went off on a tangent, and I just remembered I don't even know if that's the story you're talking about. My bad!

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Jim
11/15/2016 02:19:23 pm

It was, yeah.

Will link
11/16/2016 07:58:54 pm

Okay, good. I had worried that I was going off on a tangent for no reason.

That story was a big part of why I decided to make Lindon as ordinary a guy as possible. No secret bloodline, no all-powerful ancestors, no previous life, no powers he can pull out of nowhere.

Empty
11/14/2016 08:58:27 pm

Aha, Desolate Era is currently my fav. I wish the translations of Lord Xue Xing could come out faster, currently reading the mtl of it. Lord Xue Xing is IET's current series. (he actually writes chapters faster than they can be translated)

IHSTH, I think people either really love this, or dislike it because they find it boring. I ended up dropping it because it was a chore to read to me. A lot of the story lines, and battles just seemed to drag unnecessarily. I made it to the middle of book 5 before I just didn't want to read it anymore. Book 3 is an an exception though, that book was amazing.

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Will link
11/15/2016 11:04:33 am

Desolate Era was my favorite for a long time, but shortly after he completed the [SPOILER-FREE] big tournament and started training under his [SPOILER-FREE] new master, my interest waned.

He's just kind of...already the best, so any increases in power felt superfluous at that point.

But I know I'm like three volumes behind now, so I'm sure he eventually ran into new challenges.

I tried to read ISSTH twice. Either the writer is so good that some of his excellent wordplay survives into English or the translators are gods (or both), because on a sentence level it's way smoother and easier to read than anything else.

It just takes SO long to go anywhere. Too often (for my tastes) he either doesn't have a goal pulling him toward it, or doesn't have a threat pushing him forward, or both.

But I didn't even finish the first volume, so I know I haven't read nearly enough to render an accurate judgment. That's why I say I "haven't read it" instead of "haven't read much of it;" because I've read so little that I know I didn't even really get a taste.

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Empty
11/17/2016 05:58:53 pm

Yeah, all of I.E.T's novels follow similar formats. The character is hot stuff for a while, but they soon discover they have a ways to go. I'll just say that there is a lot about the world of DE that Ji Ning and other characters don't know about.

Mick
11/15/2016 07:07:46 pm

Is it possible at the end of the next book to have a short glossary that has the known power scales (copper, iron, jade, etc), key attributes of each scale and known paths?

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Luke
11/16/2016 10:05:10 am

I would really like that, because so far all we have to go with is Yerin's and Eithan's explanation of things.

By the way, I really loved the extra touch on the end of Soulsmith, increasing the difficulty curve by giving Lindon the seemingly-impossible duel with Jai.

I can't wait for your next book! :D

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Will link
11/16/2016 01:17:03 pm

Thanks, Luke!

Mick: I'm planning on including a magic system glossary for each of my books on the site, and then including a link to the page in future ebooks. That way, you have access to the glossary, but it doesn't take up space at the end of the book.

Brian C
11/16/2016 03:31:17 pm

Are you sure that's wise to put it as a link? I know it is more work to put in the books but what if the glossary becomes somewhat spoiler-ish in terms of powers individuals get when they "level up" as it were? What I mean by this as the story develops the glossary will/should be updated but can't that spoil some of the older stories for new readers who have just discovered your works? I know this seems like a big "what-if" but it's something that might ruin a big moment down the line for some readers. Hopefully you can make sense of what I'm trying to say.

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Will link
11/16/2016 07:57:10 pm

I'm not sure, no.

I've considered that very same issue. So I thought about dividing it by book, which seems like a lot of trouble, or by simply defining terms in as spoiler-free a manner as possible. For instance:

Lowgold - The first stage of Gold advancement.

...and so on. Of course the easiest solution is just to put it in the back, but after reading The Blood Mirror and experiencing the disappointment when you get to 89% and realize the book is suddenly over and the last 11% is notes and glossary...that's not a great feeling.

I'm trying to strike a happy medium, but I haven't come to any conclusions yet.

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Jim
11/17/2016 09:43:18 am

Totally agree on the 89% bit.

John Vargin
11/21/2016 02:47:39 pm

Right?! This last 11% nonsense that some of these 'epic' book include is a bummer, to be succinct. Blood Mirror was the last one to do it to me as well. Definitely a link, not an index of info-dump at the end.

Greg
11/17/2016 11:12:12 am

I'd also recommend Stellar Transformations, it was the first one I'd read, and I'm pretty sure was the first to be seriously translated. It's what pretty much inspired the creation of Wuxiaworld.

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Will link
11/17/2016 03:30:42 pm

I should read it, because I enjoyed Coiling Dragon and it's supposed to be a prequel of sorts. Never got around to it, though.

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Greg
11/17/2016 04:55:01 pm

It's kinda sorta a prequel, as Linely does appear in it at one point. But other than Linely's appearance and a few other small things, it pretty much separate.

Will's publisher (not really)
11/17/2016 12:13:49 pm

"Will what are you doing posting on your blog when you should be getting me more books to publish get back to work slave." *multiple whip strikes in the background

But in all seriousness though love your books Will keep up the great work

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Will link
11/17/2016 03:31:30 pm

Please, stop whipping me...I'm working as hard as I can...I can't remember the last time I saw the sun...

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Mike
11/17/2016 10:33:26 pm

Is there any way to get these on an e-reader? I'd love to read these but it's so much harder to read large amounts of text on a computer monitor.

By the way Will, I love all your writing. Thank god for amazon's kindle unlimited; not sure I would have read your books without it (I buy them all now).

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Jacob Carasso
11/18/2016 10:33:09 am

The way I read everything is on my phone. The text scales just right so it is easy to read for me. It allows me to read anywhere.

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Will link
11/18/2016 02:56:50 pm

Man, thank God for Kindle Unlimited indeed. Some of my titles make more from a full KU read than from a sale.

I read them on my phone, just like Jacob does, but I do sometimes have problems with the mobile site. Usually ad-related. Not most of the time, but occasionally.

The Wuxiaworld crew has talked about an app designed for reading these stories on the phone, but I'm not sure if they ever moved forward on it or not.

Thanks for giving me a shot, Mike!

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Lordofchaos
11/18/2016 01:53:46 pm

Are we gonna see the requisite pet companion in this book?

Spirit Realm is hilarious with that dog who keeps calling himself "Daddy" in all his sentences.

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Will link
11/18/2016 02:55:05 pm

Kind of, actually, yeah.

Not a dog, though.

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Adarsh
11/19/2016 03:48:40 pm

Its the Sylvan Riverseed, isn't it?

Will link
11/30/2016 12:00:10 pm

SPOILER ALERT







...no, it's actually not the Sylvan Riverseed.

Sean
11/18/2016 05:31:18 pm

So, is there a forum set up somewhere where we can start to guess what is going to happen and theorize how Lindon is going to overcome his next couple obstacles?

This series is amazing and if we can actually get the third book out by January/February (take your time if you need it, however) then Will can just go ahead and get my bank account information and set up AutoPay!

**Spoiler/Possible theory below**

As to theories, I don't think Lindon will get gold in the next book, just Jade (hopefully), however I have this weird thought that the Sylvan Riverseed is going to "grow" into his gold bond thingymagig. I just can't think of anything in the world that has "Pure" madra besides it, and they kept talking about how it is like a Remnent and how valuable it is. So that's my theory. Hope I didn't spoil anything!

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Will link
11/30/2016 11:58:41 am

I really do wish there was a forum or something, I just don't have the time or inclination to set it up. I feel bad, though, because these comments are a pretty terrible medium for discussion.

And it can't possibly be a spoiler unless I say it, Sean!

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Caleb Chamberlain
11/19/2016 04:40:02 pm

Thanks for this!

I was telling my brother about the Cradle books the other day, and I specifically pointed out that this whole advance-to-immortality idea is one of the things that draws me to the series. I'm a martial artist, and it's disappointing to me that such a thing doesn't exist.

The highest rank obtainable in our system is 10th degree, Grand Master. It's a lifetime achievement, and one you get a handful of years before you die, if at all. When it comes to actual physical ability, you peak somewhere between 30 and 40. Thereafter, you begin the slow but inexorable decay to death.

I lament that there isn't an ever-expanding path like the ones in this series. :-)

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Will link
11/30/2016 12:01:13 pm

What? Your system doesn't allow you to train up to immortality and invincibility?

Then what's the point?

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Tyson Something
11/20/2016 08:00:19 pm

I tried to read some of I Shall Seal the Heavens based on comments here. Couldn't quite get past chapter 7 and this nonsense...

"As he walked, he grew more and more excited. The road he walked was filled with blood and gore…

The blood and gore of scores of wild animals, whose butts had exploded violently."

I mean, did the authors rewrite ISSTH after everyone here had read it as some kind of joke? Am I missing something?

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Will link
11/30/2016 12:02:00 pm

Like I said, I can't vouch for or against ISSTH, but that sounds kind of funny to me. Like the author is poking fun at how hyper-serious and edgy many cultivation novels are.

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Jordan
11/22/2016 07:10:31 pm

While I wait and wait and wait... I'll go back to reread my favorite series.... travelers gate... lol

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Will link
11/30/2016 12:02:24 pm

Only when I write as fast as you can read will I have reached my final form.

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Nimish
11/23/2016 09:11:11 am

Anybody thought bout the fact that cause he Lindon has two cores he could also get two gold bond thing-o-a-jig, cause both his cores advance separately.
(Sorry if I ruined the suspense but it is a viable theory)

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Will link
11/30/2016 12:03:10 pm

Don't worry, Nimish; it's not a spoiler unless I say it! Because by definition, you're theorycrafting. Nothing wrong with that.

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ben
11/23/2016 11:52:07 am

I was re-reading Unsouled + Soulsmith while visiting my parents for Thanksgiving, and this passage in Unsouled particularly caught my attention where Lindon read of some fanciful legends that included "...the mythical 'true badges' that amplified the power of human madra..."

Can't help but wonder if we might have gotten a peek at those badges by the end of Soulsmith, and now I'm looking forward to eventually running into the other legends :-) Mt. Samara guardian, Oblivion Wine, and Torchyard (hmm... TORCHyard, blackFLAME?)

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Will link
11/30/2016 12:03:33 pm

No way, those are just a fairy tale! A RIDICULOUS FAIRY TALE, I SAY.

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Will link
11/30/2016 12:03:57 pm

You would be a fool to believe such tall tales!

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Will link
11/30/2016 12:04:12 pm

A FOOL!

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John
11/23/2016 08:46:38 pm

Hi Will,

I just got my wife a kindle for her birthday, and put the Cradle series on it. English is her second language and it was taking her a long time to read English novels even though she likes to read. I glanced over how far she had gotten into it and she read about 1/5th of in it a day, which is great for her. So far she is liking the books a lot.

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Will link
11/30/2016 12:04:56 pm

That's awesome, John! If I can keep someone entertained and engaged, that's all I want!

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shai
11/23/2016 10:10:21 pm

Hey! So I just tried reading ISSTH. Because I love a protagonist getting insanely powerful I was excited - and the idea of a lindon-esque character doing in a full series seemed great. Unfotunately I was sorely disappointed. The so called "cleverness" of the character was all but non existent - a 10 yo could come up with his schemes, and every one is naive enough to fall for his scheme/flattery or incredibly impressed by his cunning. It honestly read like the author jerking off on the thought of his own brilliance. With a clutzy side kick whos entire role seems to be jerking off the protagonist's ego - kind of like a pocket p***y for the author.

So thank you for writing a book in the genre 10x as good - i love how lindon has already gotten more powerful than he could have imagined, but the obsticals have grown right along side organically - really showing why its so hard to advance in the system of the world. You also add pretty good character developement, and general depth to all of the main characters, so thank you. Pretty much the only parallel I see between the 2 is the system to advance - and from what I'm getting the system is pretty common throughout the genre, and you made even that far more interesting. Soooo going off of Jim Butcher, When more book?

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Will link
11/30/2016 12:15:37 pm

I can't defend or attack anything about ISSTH specifically, because I haven't read enough of it.

That said, the side characters being absurdly impressed with every single move the main character makes is a pretty common trope in wuxia, and I can USUALLY read past it. But it still irritates me.

Which is why I didn't carry it over to Cradle.

The worst part, to me, is when a side character treats the main character like dirt and then the MC does something noble, causing side character to fall to his knees in guilt and shame and anguish as they realize how wrong they were and how they deserve their fate.

No one reacts that way. Almost ever. If you have the strength of character to look back and realize how wrong you were about how you treated someone, then you're not the kind of person to treat them that badly in the first place. Or else it's been a long time, and you're more mature now and looking back on something stupid you did.

It grates on me every time, which is why I usually gravitate to series where it's warranted. In Emperor's Domination, for instance, he's the greatest martial arts teacher of all time incarnated into an ordinary human body. So everyone treats him like he's the greatest ever because he is, and it feels organic. Mostly.

It's like if Superman decided to take up weightlifting while pretending to be human.

All that said, there were two things I took from xianxia novels: the system to advance and the general culture. Because I find the commonalities fascinating; honor and reputation keep the world from devolving into a dog-eat-dog jungle, which ties straight into your relationships. You have to be respectful to a guy who's in the same clan as the strongest martial artist around, because the strongest martial artist is literally unstoppable. Only good manners can protect you.

Likewise, if you're strong enough to ignore the rules, you can. And everyone has to bow and scrape around you, because they have no other choice.

It's an interesting glimpse into the social relationships of a world where people are not equal in their ability to kill one another.

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Lightsyde
11/26/2016 11:40:50 am

Hey Will,

I read Against the Gods and absolutely love the genre. Amongst all the recommendations, do any of these stories have a main character that uses melee (as in hand to hand as opposed weapons held in the hand). To be honest theres so much 'sword' going around and if I can find a good story with basic melee it would be a blessing

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Will link
11/30/2016 12:18:22 pm

You know, that's a good question.

I can think of a lot of places in these stories where they fight bare-handed, but they seem to always pick up a weapon. There's a hilarious arc in Martial World where he uses a brick as a weapon, and it was enough to make me which he used a brick all the time, but I can't think of one where someone exclusively fights bare-handed.

Maybe there is one, though. I haven't read close to everything.

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Will link
11/30/2016 12:19:07 pm

*WISH he used a brick, not which.

Even I can't edit posts.

Jacob Carasso
11/30/2016 05:47:28 pm

Martial World or True Martial World?
I know it happened in TMW. Was one of the funniest moments ever.

Will link
11/30/2016 06:10:07 pm

I have no idea, I get the two confused all the time. If you say TMW, then it was TMW.

But it was absolutely the funniest thing I've read in a cultivation novel.

Jeffery Wells
12/12/2016 09:28:41 pm

Hello!

I just want to say thanks for introducing me to a genre I had no idea existed!

These books scratched a satisfying itch for me, as I've always loved anime like hunter x hunter and yu yu hakusho.

I think you've done a nice job rocketing the protagonist forward in power while keeping the threat significant. I also like that you showed the top end to be so out of this world.

Often times power jumps just seem to be there for convenience, as though the author didn't know what else to do, so he just throws out a new challenger, and oh my he's even stronger! So the protagonist has to grow too! It's fine once or twice, but gets lame quickly. You've avoided that nicely.

I'm hoping you didn't set the bar too high for other series in the genre, since some of the problems you mentioned along tend to annoy me. We'll see. :)

Reply
Will link
12/14/2016 01:55:59 pm

I'm glad you're enjoying the stories, Jeff!

The power-ups that come out of nowhere annoy me, not because I necessarily mind them in themselves, but because I know he's never going to have to figure his way out of a situation with the tools he has. He'll always get a new tool out of nowhere just in time to use it and fix all his problems.

Always, what I like so much about wuxia and xianxia is that there's forever a higher level. What's kind of funny about that is that it should STOP the main character from ever feeling like he's too powerful, because there's always a bigger fish.

So I'm trying to make sure that whenever Lindon starts feeling like the biggest fish around, he gets moved to a bigger pond.

Reply
Havoc
1/29/2017 11:05:30 pm

"So I'm trying to make sure that whenever Lindon starts feeling like the biggest fish around, he gets moved to a bigger pond."

I do hope you'll give Lindon some time to enjoy being the biggest fish around, e.g. send him back to his village for a while once he makes Gold.

Will link
1/30/2017 10:57:29 am

Probably, Havoc. I'd like to give him time to enjoy that, but I also don't want to devote an entire book to Lindon showing off. There's got to be SOME problem for him to solve.

Ryan
12/27/2016 04:56:04 pm

When is an approximate release date for black fire, as I loved the earlier books?

Reply
Prince
7/13/2017 08:09:46 am

Just read Cradle (all 3) on the recommendation of Deathblade – the translator for ISSTH. The story's great and adds a dimension of depth and scope to the antagonists. I don't have to keep telling myself 'cultivating makes you half-retarded' where characters are properly developed and have more than one beat.

(Btw, ISSTH is leaps and bounds above the others in the genre)

Reply
Erwin
5/20/2018 08:37:43 am

For ISSTH, it improves remarkably after the first two books - so - if you are having trouble getting into it - pressing onwards was worthwhile to me.

--Erwin

Reply
Dustin
5/8/2018 05:02:58 am

Hey Will, just wanted to say thanks for writing this article! I've spent the last couple of weeks reading the crap out of WuxiaWorld, and I'm enjoying every minute of it!

Can't wait until Cradle gets to the point where it rivals them in length; I bet it'll be even better ;)

Reply
Guils
7/31/2018 11:31:02 pm

I've started reading gravitytales but I come from the litrpg genre. RSSG is surprisingly good.

A fan theory: Once Lindon returns to the valley is there a possibility that he enters the labyrinth in that area? Because that's the only 'problem' there that could even challenge an archlord.

Btw I hope that now that Lindon has a Presence that he doesn't become too OP since it is a pretty broken companion.

Reply
Andy
8/7/2018 02:54:15 pm

Just reread Unsouled through Ghostwater. Can't express how much I enjoy your vision and execution. When I have had these stories to turn to when I have some quiet moments have been some of the most enjoyable of times. Love your characters and the consistency that you give the dialogues along with the humor you throw in. I hope to continue with you to the End of the Sacred Arts. Come on UNDERLORD!!!
P.S. Any hardcover collectible sets in the works?
If so put me down for one!!

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