Cradle vs. Elder Empire - CAGE FIGHT - Will Wight, New York Times Best-Selling Author of 'Cradle'

Cradle vs. Elder Empire - CAGE FIGHT

10/1/2016

There has been some extensive discussion in the previous comment section about which book I should write next--I said Elder Empire, you said Cradle, an Elder Empire fan punched you in the jaw, you had to go through four months of physical therapy, and your first words upon recovery were "Cradle next."

This may or may not influence my decision, but I'm always interested to hear your opinions, and the previous comment section was growing uncomfortably extensive.

So if you have your opinion, throw it into the comments below! Pitchforks encouraged!

Let this distract you from the fact that yesterday was the last day in September, and I didn't write a short story! Go! Turn on each other instead of me!

-Will

147 Comments

OtherWill

10/1/2016 10:04:12 am

Cradle for sure

Sarxos

10/4/2016 07:00:05 pm

Cradle for sure! I gotta find out how Lindon deals with his new predicament!

Wayne

10/4/2016 07:55:43 pm

What if the next book ends right before that duel?

Adarsh

10/5/2016 12:47:16 am

Ok, that would just be MEAN!!!

Will link

10/5/2016 11:59:09 am

I don't consider it a spoiler--because I haven't written the book yet, so everything is up in the air--to say that I was considering just that, Wayne.

Obviously there will be a showdown with Jai Long of some kind, but maybe that isn't the duel itself.

Who knows? Not you! TAKE THAT!

June

10/15/2016 04:00:53 am

Cradle please

Derek

2/1/2017 10:32:01 pm

Cradlllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Scott

10/1/2016 10:09:31 am

Cradle all day long

Trohsebwerd

10/1/2016 10:11:40 am

Oh good. A fresh comment section. It's so roomy in here compared to the last one. I'm rooting for cradle but would understand if you did EE. If you leave a project like that too long it may be hard to get back into.... Though the same could be said for cradle while you're writing EE. I don't know if it's like this for you, but when I start a new art project I only feel inspired about it for a limited time then I say "good enough" and move on. So you may be more satisfied in the future if you finish EE now..... But think of the money from quick releases that Amazon loves to reward. Also I bet that writing cradle is easier for you right now since you just left that world last.

Will link

10/1/2016 11:53:14 am

I enjoy writing them both, but I'm afraid that if I put off EE any further, then I'll get stuck between Cradle and the new Traveler's trilogy.

Will Bottorf

10/1/2016 01:53:58 pm

New Traveler's Gate trilogy you say? Any info on this please?

Will link

10/2/2016 07:53:58 am

Will:

I'm setting up for a new Traveler's Gate trilogy (currently entitled "the Traveler's Blade Trilogy," though that might change depending on how I need to format the series so Amazon displays it correctly).

It will follow Simon and take place after City of Light.

Ian

10/3/2016 02:41:17 pm

I know that you consider that a bad thing but I would love you to drop EE for Cradle and Traveler's Blade.

mark

10/25/2016 04:27:40 am

How about just finishing a damn series before starting the next one. Please?

Will link

10/25/2016 06:19:29 am

Unfortunately, Mark, if I had done that I would have run out of money. I would no longer be able to write full-time, and I would have had to find another job.

John Green

10/1/2016 10:12:29 am

Cradle first ... though I suppose I should go read Elder Empire books to have an informed opinion

Kim

10/1/2016 10:15:59 am

Elder Empire. I miss Shera.
Then, Audible: City of Light.
Then, Cradle.

Andrew

10/1/2016 10:39:10 am

Woah that's taking things a little far.
I don't think it's called for to push it that far back.... I mean I know this is a cage match but.... *Sniff* that's a little harsh

Will link

10/1/2016 11:54:05 am

I do need to get back on that audiobook train. But that's something I can do while I'm planning a book, so it won't delay releases much, if at all.

Garet Brittain

10/1/2016 10:23:25 am

I need some Elder Empire in my life Will. I NEED IT.

Will link

10/1/2016 11:54:38 am

I want to get it to you, Garet. We're on the same team.

George

3/9/2017 02:59:43 pm

A bit late to the party, but Cradle.... just binge read book 1 and 2 and need more......... also, it is AWESOME to see an author who communicates with the fan base like Will.

Chris

10/1/2016 10:31:47 am

Here’s an updated argument why Will should go ahead and write Blackflame now (posted on previous thread and updated):

1) If the Cradle books take about 2 months each to write then starting now means you'll finish around the beginning or middle of December, so right before the holidays. From a business perspective, that would be potentially very profitable to give you a release, visibility, and $$ right before the holiday buying season, plus allows you to finish 3 books this year. Waiting to do EE next year still gives time to have 3 books come up next year as well, if not possibly 4. UPDATE: according to Will sales are much less during the Holiday season versus summer. That is another reason to push for EE conclusion after Blackflame since that will mean it comes out next summer during the best time to release. It has a smaller fan base and so could use the more popular release schedule. The Cradle series though has a wider fan base and so will likely sell well no matter when you release.

2 Wouldn’t it be an amazing Christmas present to your loyal fans to release a book during the holiday season as a present to us for supporting you and trying to get the word out about your great books? (yes, I went there… no problem with guilt trips… ;-) )

3. The EE is great, looking forward to the conclusion, but if you start it now then it still won't be out until 2nd quarter next year so you miss the holiday season and then also put off next Cradle release until at least summer. If you do Blackflame now, then worst case EE goes back by two months which is at the end of 2nd quarter, to the summer, so you're really not delaying too much time, and as stated above will be a better release schedule for the series that has a smaller fan base. In contrast, the reverse of EE, then Blackflame, is a much larger wait on the Cradle series.

4. From a motivation perspective, it sounds like from your comments above that you're a bit more in the zone on writing the Cradle series so doing one more now will likely go faster than having to wait to do it after EE. It also sounds like since EE is harder to write you'll have to take some time to get back into that one anyway. Doing Blackflame now is likely a very smooth transition and then will give you time beginning in the new year to start EE conclusion and really get into that with the Blackflame behind you.

6. The Cradle series seems to be in a bit of a mini-arc right now where the next book will likely really pick up and get exciting. The EE series has already passed through that arc and beginning its final path to conclusion. Fans really want to know what happens next, but it's not quite as tense for readers waiting for it as it is for waiting for Blackfame.

7. And finally... I really want to know what freaking happens next!!

alright, thanks...

-Chris

Will link

10/1/2016 12:10:23 pm

I really do think you're making great points, Chris.

1.) I'm not sure Cradle WILL sell well regardless of release time, at least until there are more books in the series. But we'll see; I'm always willing to try things.

2.) That skewers me right in my red-and-green heart, Chris.

3.) This seems accurate. I can't deny it.

4.) I'm usually in the zone right after I finish a book in one world, unless I've written so much in a row that I need a break (like with TGT). It would be easier writing Blackflame now than next year. But at the same time, putting EE off longer would make that harder as well.

5.) I think 5 may have wandered off somewhere.

6.) It is in a little arc, that's true, but I can't guarantee that Book 4 won't ALSO be part of a little arc. Or 5. Or 6.

7.) In a way, Chris, so do I.

-Will

dave

10/1/2016 09:06:20 pm

Intresting points you made. Will i think you should write what ever takes less time while i am dying to read the next books in EE SERIES i would definetly go for the next installment of cradle. On another note whats up with TGT because TGT trumps all and you should write that now!!

Dan

10/1/2016 10:40:43 am

Cradle is really good and I'd love the next book, but my understanding was that Cradle isn't a trilogy. That means that if you write the next book in the Cradle series we'll be right back here all over again. It would just be Elder Empire vs Cradle 4. I'd rather have closure with the current EE trilogy.

Chris

10/1/2016 10:45:43 am

Yeah, that occurred to me as well, however to not gives spoilers to those who haven't read Cradle 2 but it feels like it's going through a mini-arc where the third book will be very impactful for the series and its growth. So, it's not likely an end to the series but will likely be a tying together of that mini-arc.

Luke Cage

10/1/2016 11:33:41 am

And since Blackflame is not yet written, Will could always choose to make it tie up some loose ends, thus making it definitely the end of a mini-arc, and not introduce any major new cliffhangers, so that readers would not feel such suspense waiting for the next Cradle book.

Also, if releasing in mid- to late December is bad for sales, why not just wait until early January? I have noticed that a lot of major publisher book releases skip December, but there are a decent number in early January. Besides, with editing time, it may take 3 months anyway.

Madeline

10/1/2016 11:40:47 am

This. I didn't mind waiting for the second book after finishing Unsouled, because it seemed like the sacred valley arc was wrapped up nicely and it would be interesting to read Lindon's continuing adventures outside, but there weren't any urgent questions I wanted answered immediately.

Soulsmith, on the other hand, ends in the middle of an arc. You're left wondering how is Lindon going to be able to defend himself in a year, what is Yerin going to be doing while Lindon apparently advances several times in a year, will the sandvipers be angry or amazed that Lindon's Iron body is so much better than theirs (five dead sandvipers.......) and other assorted questions which relate to the events which are going to immediately follow the events in Soulsmith, and which, therefore, will be contained in Blackflame, as opposed to questions which I know will be answered gradually over the course of Lindon's decades long struggle to become powerful enough to make a difference.

I would be much more willing to settle back and wait for the next Cradle book following the final EE release, if the previous Cradle release didn't leave me in the middle of an arc like Soulsmith did. Assuming that Blackflame will do a better job of wrapping up the arc than Soulsmith, Blackflame will be a better place to stop for a while than Soulsmith.

Mom's looking at her quilt kits I will post later about what things she's found

Easily Amused Eldrazi link

10/1/2016 10:51:24 am

I would argue for finishing EE next, for the following reasons:
1. Finishing that arc will allow more time and effort for other projects, like Cradle and Traveler's Gate.
2. Finishing EE will ensure that you don't get sucked into the same thing Brandon Sanderson did with Elantris and take almost a decade to write the next one, thus ensuring a lack of rabid-badger curses from your readers.
Those are from an author's perspective, which I have less experience with since I'm not an author, just a very well-read reader.
From a reader's perspective, here is an additional reason, which you may ignore or take into account (it is very similar to #2)as you wish:
3. I love all of the stories you've built so far, and really, really, REALLY don't want any to end up abandoned, never finding completion, in favor of another that takes a little less time to write.

Just to make it clear, I love all of the stuff you've written so far Will, and have no intention of attempting a rabid-badger curse on the person tied with Brandon Sanderson for my Favorite Author, but I do want to see what happens in EE before more Cradle, as I've been waiting for EE longer than I have Cradle, or even Traveler's Gate thanks to the short stories (though I also want more of that soon). Whatever you choose to write next, it shall almost certainly be fantastic, even if it's not what I had hoped it would be, and I look forward to reading it voraciously and wishing there was more. Happy Writing!

Will link

10/1/2016 12:14:25 pm

1.) I agree, and this is one of the main reasons why I'm planning on writing OKAK next: for the freedom.

2.) You know, I never thought Elantris needed a sequel.

3.) The EE series will definitely be finished. I hate leaving stories untold. Barring my death or maiming, you'll get an end.

4.) Thanks for caring enough to comment, Eldrazi! I appreciate it!

Andrew

10/1/2016 01:37:46 pm

I also thought Elantris was tired up nicely and didn't feel any need to visit it again.

Avinash

10/2/2016 07:04:36 am

dont u dare die will
i dont have a medium or psychic on retainer but i swear i will find one to bind ur soul tell u finish all ur books.

maiming is ok we will get you a stephen hokins like chair to write books.

P.S. you know what will cause an even bigger uproar and revolt
.
.
.
.
.
.
if u announce you are going to start a new series first

P.P.S.:please stay away from Patrick Rothfuss or george r.r. martin an keep people liike Sanderson as ur company.

also please get on with the short stories

Will link

10/2/2016 07:55:52 am

Avinash,

Yours was the first comment in this thread to make me laugh, so thank you for brightening up my morning!

Also, if you have some sort of mystical method of keeping me writing after I'm dead, by all means employ it. I do sometimes worry that I'll die suddenly in the middle of a series and leave people without a conclusion. I hate that.

James A

10/3/2016 07:30:04 am

I also don't think Elantris needed a sequel, tied up nicely so Sanderson could move on for a decade-like EE should! (I'm not sure Warbreaker needed a sequel , but he wrote himself into a corner with that one)

scott pike

10/4/2016 03:22:17 pm

The reason Elantris needs a sequel is we know so little about that world and its history as well as what the nature of which two shards of power shaped the magic and nature of that world. We got a little more in the novella The Emperors soul but nothing as deep as mistborn or stormlight.

Will link

10/5/2016 10:52:54 am

I wasn't a huge fan of Elantris, to be perfectly honest with you. I thought it wrapped up perfectly well, and I wasn't really curious to see more of the world.

But Brandon Sanderson has improved dramatically as a storyteller since then, and I think The Emperor's Soul deserves a sequel more than Elantris does.

Sam

10/1/2016 10:55:58 am

Oh definitely cradle

OMEGA Reader

10/1/2016 11:02:04 am

Elder Empire first. Finish it and move on. You delay it, and you end up pushing Travelers Gate further back down the line or another cradle book.

People like Cradle, and so they'll wait for Cradle.

Madeline

10/1/2016 11:44:15 am

See, I would have been happier waiting for the sequel when the most recent book in the Cradle series was the first one, but the second one really does not end at a good point for stopping for a while. There are too many unanswered questions which will obviously be answered soon, as opposed to Unsouled, which ended with a bunch of unanswered questions which will obviously not be answered for a while because Lindon's power level isn't anywhere near high enough to answer them. Assuming that Blackflame introduces more questions that can't possibly be answered in book 4, and answers most of the questions that Soulsmith brought up, I think Cradle readers would be much happier waiting after Blackflame than waiting after Soulsmith.

Will link

10/1/2016 11:50:30 am

Madeline, I agree with what you're saying in theory, but until I write the book I can't be sure how many open-ended questions I'll leave you on. I know what I PLAN, but that's not always what ends up in the book.

Maybe Book 3 is an even more agonizing cliffhanger. Though probably not.

Madeline

10/1/2016 11:55:36 am

Yes but at least in theory if you KNOW that leaving so many open ended questions about what comes next will make Cradle fans rise up and demand another book before Elder Empire, you would do a better job of trying to minimize the open ended questions as related to what comes immediately after Blackflame?
Also has anyone told you about the numerous typos that i've found in Soulsmith? Or should I read through it again and send you a this is why you should let me be a beta reader email?

Will link

10/1/2016 12:11:33 pm

You should send me an email and I will fix them! I can always tweak and re-upload the book with minimal effort.

Andrew

10/1/2016 11:11:29 am

Hey! Wait a sec! What happened to the short story!?

Will link

10/1/2016 11:49:11 am

Well, when I finish a book, I often sink into a state known in the medical community as "sleep" and do not emerge for days, or even weeks.

Andrew

10/1/2016 01:45:10 pm

Fair enough. Since you just gave me a great book I think letting the short story slip by is just fine.

Avinash

10/2/2016 07:10:01 am

we do not need another Shera will,
so get up

Will link

10/2/2016 07:57:39 am

Who says I'm NOT an abused sociopath whose greatest joy in life comes from sleep? Maybe I based Shera on myself.

(SPOILER ALERT: I didn't.)

Chris

10/1/2016 11:24:14 am

Hey Will,

by the way, can you embed an online poll with this blog post? That would actually be interesting to see some numbers of what people are thinking. Yes, people can cheat by doing it more than once (so don't cheat people!), but it still might be informative. Not sure who/what you're using for hosting and building your site, but it should be pretty simple from what I've seen.

Thanks,
Chris

John

10/1/2016 11:36:53 am

I hope Will won't waste any time on a poll like that. His time is better spent writing!

Besides, the book sales numbers speak louder than any poll.

Will link

10/1/2016 11:43:56 am

I have added a poll! It's drag-and-drop, so it took two seconds.

Will link

10/1/2016 11:48:01 am

I wish it displayed the results, but I can still see them, so I'll post them in a few days.

Elfishpirat

10/1/2016 11:46:16 am

This has an easy solution. Just forego any form of social life you have, refrain from eating and sleeping and just spend 24 hours each day writing. Then, you can churn out both series and release them at the same time by this time next month.

Problem solved! :P

Will link

10/1/2016 11:47:25 am

The solution, it's...it's so beautiful...

My whole life has been a lie. To the writing machine!

Avinash

10/2/2016 07:06:54 am

yes will

its all an illusion

just do ur dhrama(writing) and forgo all worldly desires.

thats the path to NIRVANA

not the band.!

Will link

10/2/2016 07:58:26 am

At last, I can transcend this earthly existence and become a being of pure creation!

Or at least a couple of disembodied typing hands.

Matthew

10/1/2016 11:53:04 am

Honestly this is a bit of an unfair "fight" so to speak, since you've released two Cradle books consecutively they are much fresher on everyone's memory. Obviously there will be more people lobbying for Cradle.

However, the conclusion to EE is hanging right in front of us. As a huge fan of all of your books I'm excited to see where Lindon's story takes him, but Shera and Calder's story has been left hanging for too long.

A lot of authors take "detours" to other series and never return, which loomed in the back of my mind when I saw your blog post, but I honestly don't feel like that would happen in your case. You're like a writing machine.

At the end of the day, if you only wrapped up EE to appease us but weren't happy with it yourself, I feel like that would be a disservice to you as an author. Above all, I feel like an author or any other type of artist should be satisfied with their own work above others expectations.

No matter what decision you make I think your loyal fans will support you either way. I know I will. Keep up the great work!

Will link

10/1/2016 12:00:51 pm

Under no circumstances (besides my death or incapacitation) would I allow Elder Empire to go unfinished forever. But there is a point where it becomes too much of a delay.

I'm mainly trying to provide a venue for discussion because people seem to enjoy discussing this issue, and I like to know what people think. I wouldn't publish a book I'm not happy with.

Also, I enjoy writing the series equally. EE is just more difficult work.

Avinash

10/2/2016 07:07:45 am

i need a psyhic

Adarsh

10/1/2016 11:56:08 am

Oh yeah, definitely Cradle. Elder Empire is nice, but the time/book ratio is too high, plus I honestly enjoyed both Unsouled and Soulsmith more than any of the EE books. Travelers gate would be nice as well.

Will link

10/1/2016 12:02:49 pm

That's good feedback, Adarsh, thanks!

Christian

10/1/2016 12:14:10 pm

Cradle.i couldn't get into the elder empire series.

Will link

10/1/2016 12:14:54 pm

I know there are quite a few people who felt that way, Christian.

Mahfuz

10/1/2016 12:40:33 pm

Elder Nye is gonna strangle the lot of you for not mentioning TRAVELER'S BLADE

Honestly people. You can't hide from Ka'nie'ka!

Madeline

10/1/2016 01:16:36 pm

Well, he told us he'd only return to Traveller's Gate after Elder Empire. Asking him to choose one of THREE competing sides as opposed to TWO competing sodes would just be cruel

Mahfuz

10/1/2016 01:22:43 pm

Well then. The denizens of the House vote for Cradle xD

Jessica

10/1/2016 01:32:02 pm

I'd like EE and two of them please. I read them in tandem.

James S

10/1/2016 02:31:49 pm

I said OKAK, purely for closure, I want one series done so I can then look forward to more from the other 2.

John

10/1/2016 05:53:25 pm

Definitely cradle. You already wrote four EE books!

Fernando

10/1/2016 06:05:25 pm

OKAK for sure! I absolutely loved the EE series and am dying to finish it (Cradle is great too, but I miss Shera!)

Mark

10/1/2016 07:49:14 pm

Travelers gate all the way. I need to hear what Simon's up to! Then Cradle then EE. Come on will you've made me wait years to hear what's up with Simon

Mark

10/1/2016 08:49:16 pm

To put more thought in my argument I have elaborated from my tantrum of the above comment.
1. I can honestly say how I have no idea the amount of times I have reread the TGT books, probably close to a dozen or more times.t his includes all three books.
2. I have now read unsouled around 6 times
3. I'm on my third time through soulsmith.
4. I have read EE ONCE. I really liked it but I had trouble getting into it.
5. Maybe that's because you *spoiler* killed URZAIA off! Come on man you killed the best character off...it was like Atonement where everything turns to crap at the end if the book.This in my humble opinion is the Achilles heel of the series
6. Besides my tangent down the rabbit hole on five is why you should give your readers what they want.
7. Your the author and I'm going to buy whatever you write anyway.

Will link

10/5/2016 12:11:24 pm

Two of my best friends keep telling me to magically resurrect Urzaia. "I don't care how. Maybe the Elders did it. Maybe he wasn't really dead after all. Maybe they turn back time, I don't care. Just bring him back."

As for your arguments, I think that builds a better case for Cradle if I were planning on writing a sequel series. Like if you were deciding between Cradle 2, Traveler's Gate 2, and Elder Empire 2. Then I would be smarter to do more Cradle and TG, because those are more popular and profitable.

In the current situation, if you don't re-read Elder Empire, then shouldn't I finish it next? That way it's over with, and I can focus on the two series I have that you enjoy.

Dan

10/1/2016 08:36:28 pm

Definitely Elder Empire! I need to see Calder and Shera alive and well and totally not ganked by Suriel from beyond space and time...

Will link

10/2/2016 08:02:34 am

You've stumbled onto my secret plan, Dan. The Elders win, Shera and Calder die, and the last book is just the Abidan cleaning up the mess.

Rhys link

10/2/2016 02:56:37 pm

In fiarness that would be awesome as hell. I mean that would get me back into the EE series.

Dan

10/3/2016 05:59:39 pm

Now that would be a Harrowing experience...

Arenwyn

10/1/2016 08:44:35 pm

To Mr. Wight, whom it may or may not concern.

As a humble member of your fan community who wholeheartedly believes that the next installment of your literary career should be the heartwarming parable of a naive blue whale without a single worldly ambition beyond being, at least once in its blubbery life, interviewed before a live studio audience, how would you respond to my contention that I have been poorly represented in your poll?

Will link

10/2/2016 08:03:51 am

Arenwyn,

I would respond with a thirty-six-minute serenade of whalesong, which in the blue whale community translates into a very nuanced apology.

And then I would reveal to you my plans for "BlueSong: Live and Uncut."

Alex

10/1/2016 09:34:47 pm

I think cradle should be next

Also talking about soulsmith THAT TWIST THO WITH EITHAN OH MY FREAKING G0D I WANTED TO SCREAM
But I was in the cafeteria at school so I couldn't

Will link

10/5/2016 12:13:50 pm

I'm sorry you didn't get to scream, Alex. It improves the reading experience.

I found it interesting who saw Eithan's identity coming and who didn't. My sister, for instance, read Eithan's introduction and immediately texted me: "He's the Arelius guy, isn't he?"

Corey

10/12/2016 06:23:32 pm

I'll start this off with... I LOVE Eithan so much!!!

Not sure if you've read The Darksword Trilogy, but he reminds me of a more badass Simkin from those books. (Also from the beginning of Cradle I drew parallels between the two series, Lindon and Joram are similar because they are both powerless in a world full of overpowered people.)

Cradle has me in a much tighter vice grip than Darksword ever did though... Seriously your books are like crack. I need another fix soon! I'm great with whichever of the three series you pick (sounds like it'll be EE)!

P.S. You are only available on the Kindle store correct? I ask because I am telling everyone to read your books and one of my buddies has a nook but he can't find you on there. So naturally I got him drunk and bought the hard copy of House of Blades for him (teehee I'm quite devious). He's loving it but it's nice to have it on a device you know? Maybe he's not looking hard enough... let me know! Thanks!!!

P.P.S. SERIOUSLY THIS BOOK CRACKHEAD NEEDS A NEW FIX!

timasp

10/1/2016 09:42:49 pm

I'll be entirely honest -- I don't mind. I just want a good Will Wight book. As long as I have that, I'm happy!

Will link

10/2/2016 07:52:46 am

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I never said it would be GOOD.

Kaden

10/1/2016 10:03:16 pm

EE next because

A. Shera needs to wake up from her nap (time between books)

B.we need vengeance for Lucan

C. I have waited very patiently after you not only threw back the date once but two times and its really bugging me

D.the badgers

E. Who wins

F. I needs to know!!!

G. I am slowing losing the ability of self control and iron will without the conclusion

Emily

10/2/2016 11:56:32 pm

Vengeance for Lucan is a must. People talk about the Cradle clifhanger but man killing Lucan...he was the best character (and definitely the most good character) like will Shera try and be better in his memory or just become a complete sociopath killer with super mist powers?

Kaden

10/3/2016 05:47:50 am

I think that without Lucian Shera's humanity died with him and she has now been turned into a merciless killing force leading an entire guild of assassins I feel sad for the future death of Calder Martin the navigators imperial guards magisters elders ect

Or there is a 7% chance I'm wrong and she wait no 2% chance where she would kill jynine and Calder then retire

Will link

10/5/2016 12:15:01 pm

It's bugging me too, Kaden. I want to finish it.

But I'm still wondering if I should bow to cold, hard practicality and just stick with what people are reading.

Ka'Elle

10/1/2016 11:39:04 pm

I can't comment on which book you should write next because I'm just finishing the second book in the Travelers Gate trilogy. I just wanted to say keep writing regardless! Really loving this series and looking forward to reading the rest of your books!

Andrew

10/2/2016 01:49:47 pm

You have so much to look forward to....

Will link

10/5/2016 12:17:30 pm

Thanks for reading, Ka'elle! I'm glad you enjoyed the first book enough to pick up the second, and I hope you like the third one even more!

Trieu

10/2/2016 12:33:25 am

The people have spoken....Cradle 3!!!

Brian C

10/2/2016 05:24:48 am

I'll cast my vote for Cradle. I'm really excited to see what comes next in the series.

Jeremiah

10/2/2016 08:38:03 am

Badgering Jeremiah says okak. You ate going to do what you want but is buy you at least lunch if you would bring Calder and Shera out of the cold

Will link

10/5/2016 12:17:58 pm

They're so cold, Jeremiah. So cold...

tyler

10/2/2016 09:20:40 am

MOAR SIMON

Cris

10/2/2016 01:23:48 pm

Another vote for Cradle here; loving the new series.

Conspiracy Theory 101

10/2/2016 02:31:16 pm

I have a theory. The "Territories" from Travelers Gate are the remnants of worlds created by the Elders, who are rogue members of the Abidan.

Andrew

10/2/2016 04:01:31 pm

Expanding on this, I think there are also groups that are out there in the multiverse that are at least as powerful, if not more, than the Abidan and the Elders.

Will link

10/5/2016 12:18:47 pm

I can't comment too much on this, but...

The Abidan have to have SOMEONE to fight.

Armand

10/2/2016 04:07:02 pm

Cradle!

Arenwyn

10/2/2016 05:58:07 pm

When a portal is opened in The Traveler's Gate, does it connect two points in three-dimensional space, or does it open a path to some orthogonal plane, such that movement along one axis in the traveler's original world translates into motion in another, which is present only in the new world (traveling from an x,y,z coordinate plane to some w,x,y, or otherwise labeled plane).

Also, why doesn't gravity act between worlds, if a gate is opened to say, Tartarus, which seems to have gravity comparable to that of the nameless territory, why doesn't it eat everything nearby?

My sincerest apologies,
Arenwyn

Will link

10/5/2016 12:19:07 pm

Magic.

Kenneth

10/2/2016 08:45:41 pm

I would prefer finishing (or bringing to a logical pausing place) the EE series, as I am 2/4 books into it already. But either move would at least finish one of the two series so it would set up my next read.

I'm not a writer, so shat do I know? But another reason to maybe do EE next is that having been away from it for a time writing another project might have given you some new perspective on the story. But breaking from it to write an entire new series before coming back to it? Mightn't that just make it harder to get back to and get inspired?

Will link

10/5/2016 12:20:12 pm

Cradle 3 won't finish the series, that's the sticking point. It's not a trilogy.

But to be honest with you, I do not think that taking a couple more months off from Elder Empire is going to make it any harder to write than it is right now.

Henrik

10/2/2016 11:07:59 pm

I want a Halloween special with lots of gore and gruesome deaths!

Then EE I think because i'm planning a re-read of that serie.

Then Cradle forevermore.

and world peace.

Will link

10/5/2016 12:20:48 pm

I don't know how much I can help you with the gore, but otherwise CAN DO.

James A.

10/3/2016 07:05:09 am

Hey Will, love all your work, read your last 4 books the date of publication. Although I prefer Crady infuriating when an author le, I think you should finish EE. I think that there is a sort of compact when an author begins a series and that the series should be finished in a timely fashion. Not trying to throw Rothfuss under a bus, but it is pretty infuriating when an author has seemingly abandoned writing something. Sooner or late the bullet must be bitten, why not do it now so you can do Traveler's and Cradle without this hanging over your head? Also EE is still pretty great

Will link

10/5/2016 12:21:38 pm

That's basically what I'm thinking, James. I like Elder Empire, and it's going to haunt me until it's finished.

Alex

10/3/2016 07:23:29 am

Tough choices with that poll. I've still got to finish reading the 2nd books in the EE series, so I've happily got those to keep me going for now. So I put my vote for more Cradle, but I'd also like more Traveller's Gate. Basically write something and I'll read whatever it is and be happy!

Did you say something about short stories?

Will link

10/5/2016 12:22:46 pm

Short stories? Who said that? What short stories? LOOK, A DISTRACTION!

For real, though, now that the book is out, I do plan on catching up my short story game.

Andrew

10/5/2016 05:25:20 pm

You could just start with this month and forget the catch up.

Jeremiah

10/3/2016 11:47:54 am

So, this is my less snarky response:

You can do what you want, we will read it. We have enjoyed everything and you will be due an extra chance or two if you happen to write something that we don't like. You have provided far more enjoyment that the price paid would suggest and the free content in the form of your interactions adds even more. You do what you want to do and I, at least, will continue to send you badgers and rabid couches regardless. You have come far and I'm sure you will find some way to aggravate me in not doing what I want you to do and doing something fabulous anyway.

I reserve the right to take some other random comment and run it into the ground, though :)

Will link

10/5/2016 12:25:43 pm

Well, of course. I'm pretty sure that right is in the Internet Constitution.

Honestly what I'll probably do is start EE, and then if Blackflame happens, it happens. Unsouled kind of spontaneously generated itself too.

Daniel

10/3/2016 09:04:29 pm

How about a new book with all your characters getting sick through wormholes into a advanced fighting area were they have to kill until only one is left. Or you could finish of ee with their last two books the but out one of the new house of blade books followed by the unsoul books revoilng in that order. Just a suggestion

Will link

10/5/2016 12:30:15 pm

Interestingly enough, I had considered some form of that idea: using the Abidan to pull characters from my different series onto a world where they had to fight for some contrived reason.

I basically gave up on it because it's pretty meta--you have to treat my entire body of work thus far as one story. It's kind of like writing my own fanfiction.

My plan once EE is finished is to go Cradle 3, TG 4, Cradle 4, NEW THING, Cradle 5, TG 5, NEW THING 2, and so on.

Doug

11/17/2016 10:30:17 am

Mr. Wight I have read the travelers gate trilogy over 57 times, the cradle books over 32 times, and the elder empire 29 times anything you write I will devour gladly just do something I'm dieing

Will link

11/17/2016 03:29:40 pm

I'm working as we speak, Doug! Don't go into the light! Hold on!

Ben

10/4/2016 03:54:13 am

I voted but I'll read either so I win no matter what. Your plan has failed.

Devin

10/4/2016 11:45:49 am

You don't understand sir! I want it more! I need me some cradle bad. EE is great but I NEED cradle 3! Unless.... Unless you stop to write a new travelers gate novel..... Thats ok to I guess.

Will link

10/5/2016 12:31:00 pm

Sounds like you're set to win no matter what, Devin.

Scott (a different one!)

10/4/2016 11:50:14 am

I voted for the series I personally found more engaging, but I am looking forward to reading whatever you put out next. As I've said in the past, you produce an astounding amount of literary content, and it's stuff that I really enjoy consuming. You could put out an entirely new experiment in writing and I'd give it a chance without any questions asked.

Based on what you've said on your blog in the past couple posts, it does sound like wrapping up the Elder Empire story would be the best choice from the perspective of your mental focus.

You've said that your beta readers tended to prefer EE over Cradle, but your public following had the reverse reaction. You've also said that Cradle surprised you to a remarkable degree with how much better it did than EE. What do you think are some of the key reasons? Is it the appeal of the origin story vs. jumping in with characters that clearly have a history of extreme competence? Is it the ability to develop the world for the reader as the characters grow themselves instead of tossing the reader into a complex web of multiple (8, I think?) official factions plus a government plus multiple ancient deities with their own agendas? Are there lessons you can take from EE that will serve you well in later Cradle novels after some leveling up? Are there things that you can use from Cradle to tell future stories in the Elder Empire that might have a better reception?

I'm not expecting detailed answers to those questions, to be clear. If you're willing to share, though, I am definitely curious about some generalizations that you can take from your experience with the two series.

Will link

10/5/2016 11:54:52 am

Well, Different Scott, I like to give detailed answers to detailed questions. So I'll respond with as much accuracy as I can.

First of all, everything I'm going to say is theoretical. It's based on my own experiences and assumptions, and someone else might come to different conclusions with the same data. So keep in mind that, even though I might phrase it as though I've come to a definitive conclusion, I'm very much aware that the situation is complex and difficult to quantify.

As for Cradle/TGT versus Elder Empire, most people who read EE responded well. Just as well as with Cradle and TG, interestingly enough. For some people it's their favorite series of the three, for others it's their least favorite. The review averages are very high, and I got a good response to them privately (in emails and such).

But not as many people DID read EE.

Part of it, I think, is that the way Kindle works favors books with more straightforward concepts. Elder Empire has a lot going on, conceptually: you have the two parallel books, which is the big one, but also a Lovecraftian-style fantasy setting, the pirate vs. ninja theme, AND the flashbacks. It's hard for people to know what's going on until they get deeper into the book.

It seems that a lot of people, upon seeing that, just pass. They're looking for something they know they're going to like.

Traveler's Gate is the standard fantasy story with one twist, on the surface. Once you get into it, you find out about Valinhall and the original magic system, etc., but none of that is on the face of the book. It looks like an action fantasy story with a little bit of a twist on it, and it is.

Cradle, same way. It looks like a blend between a heavy-magic martial arts movie and a fantasy novel, and it basically is. Suriel notwithstanding.

So from a marketing standpoint, that's basically what I think it is. It's hard to tell what Elder Empire is, on the surface, so people don't pick it up.

***

On a storytelling level, I've learned (and am still learning) a lot from Elder Empire. Mostly about developing characters. In order to do the parallel story thing, I had to make sure that the Sea books are VERY MUCH Calder's story, and the Shadow books are VERY MUCH Shera's story, so I had to get better at drilling into a protagonist's head and focusing on who they are.

In Traveler's Gate, you'll notice, it's a lot more about what happens than about who Simon is.

With Cradle, another part of what I'm trying to do is write more of the story that Traveler's Gate WOULD have been if I had expected House of Blades to sell. I structured it as the first third of a trilogy, so he goes from "completely powerless" to "defeating a horde of Travelers" in a single book. In an ideal world, he would have gone from "powerless" to "defeating an ordinary Traveler" in the first book, and then up from there.

Traveler's Gate has become something very different since then, so even though I'm continuing the series, it's in an absolutely different place than I thought where I thought it'd end up when I first envisioned it. Miles away.

As for the flashback storylines in EE, I know some people hate flashbacks with a fiery passion, but they're in there for a reason. Namely, so at least a third of each book is completely original content, as opposed to the same thing from a different perspective. However, if I were to redesign them now, I might go with longer chapters.

The flashback chapters are usually half the size of a regular chapter, and the book alternates back and forth, so what I probably would have done is made them full-size chapters less frequently. So you cut back and forth less.

Anyway, those are the thoughts off the top of my head. Let me know if I missed your questions somehow, or if you think of anything else!

And thanks for your questions!

Scott

10/6/2016 01:35:33 pm

Entirely reasonable caveats to your responses!

The marketing explanation does make a ton of sense. There is definitely a lot going on in the EE books - I can see how people would shy away from jumping in. Without seeing how you wrap it up with the final two books, I think that the world you created there could've made for a 5-7 book series just told from one side, honestly.

Personally I thought the flashbacks were great! Like you said, they're original content for each perspective which is nice, and they also did a good job of tying a character's current situation in to some formative scene from their past. I thought it helped flesh things out, and I liked how they were a quick look back into something that was relevant to the present.

I am glad that you're getting something useful out of EE as far as your writing craft goes, in addition to the fewer-but-just-as-good reviews. Your storytelling ability has always been good, but it's improved noticeably since House of Blades. It's great that you're able to scale the power increase in Cradle more along the lines you'd like to match the story, and being able to take the Travelers in a new direction is fantastic.

Do you think the paired novel concept would've gone over better with a less complex world? Say, if Suriel and the Abidan weren't an integral (but not immediate) part of the Cradle story, and it were a straightforward heavy-magic martial arts movie fantasy novel like you said above. Maybe Lindon rising up from being Unsouled while a competitor starts off with more advantages but finds that he/she has to put in more work to catch up once Lindon surpasses him/her would make for a fairly simple world but one in which the two opposing points of view could be explored with less to distract the readers. Or do you think that the paired novel only works with a fairly complex world because otherwise there would be too much repetition? Like I said, I'd have enjoyed a longer series of EE just from a single protagonist's perspective because there are a ton of factions and interactions to explore. I think that writing 10-14 books in pairs would be a prohibitively exhausting project though, so keeping it to a trilogy makes sense.

Gunslinger

10/4/2016 07:24:12 pm

I just started reading the elder empire series so I would love a new EE book.

Also Cradle books are like crack, you always want more.

James

10/4/2016 08:00:42 pm

I would vote for cradle, but I would also enjoy another EE book. I am a doctor and would work with you to try to write the first interesting medical book, If you need a break from fiction.

Will link

10/5/2016 10:50:36 am

I'd never need a break from fiction, James. Fiction is my break from reality.

Micah

10/5/2016 02:48:01 am

Just started the EE books because I never gave them a chance up until now. I'm enjoying reading them.

I put them off because of three reasons.

The idea of writing two books that cover the same events from different perspectives is ambitious and everything, but it just seemed unsuited to an ongoing series to me. Ender's Shadow worked because everything was already concluded, I was ready to revisit those events. In an unfinished trilogy, the idea of re-reading the same events comes across as repetitive rather than fresh. I know it isn't now, but those are the assumptions I jumped to.

The second reason is the book covers. I know it's weak to judge by the covers but they just don't appeal to me personally. So much so that still, every time I accidentally glance at them I wish that I could erase the images from my mind. They really clash with what I imagine as I read.

Lastly when I first heard of the books they were advertised as Pirates vs Ninjas. The meme-ness was off putting to me. Reading the books, there is so much world building that could have been emphasised to attract me as a reader. This series is as inventive as Travelers, but when you say Pirates vs Ninjas all I hear is unoriginal vs cliche.

At the moment I'm halfway through the first books of each, and would encourage others to also give them a chance.

I'm a big fan of yours Will; I just wanted to give some feed back. Looking forward to Cradle 3 and Travelers. Probably in a week I'll be asking when the next Elder books are due as well.

Will link

10/5/2016 12:33:55 pm

Personally, I don't like the SEA cover, but I enjoy all three of the others.

That said, I'm not a fan of having the main characters on covers at all. I did it in this series to show that the protagonists of each side were different; if there's a man on three covers and a woman on the other three, you can pretty much tell which one is from which point of view.

But in general, I don't ever like that idea. I'd rather see the world than the characters.

Micah

10/13/2016 04:02:35 am

Just want to reply back saying I just read all your books. Elder Empire was good. In the cage match I voted for Cradle. After re-reading your stuff I wish I voted... Travelers. Haha well at least whatever happens I'll be ready for it now.

ANDREW LUSCOMB

10/5/2016 08:07:27 am

Write a travlers gate x cradle cross over and throw a elder god in for good measure problem solved

Adam

10/5/2016 11:01:56 am

That's a thinkin' mans answer. Agreed!

Will link

10/5/2016 11:30:48 am

You know, I've considered doing something like this as a non-canon short story.

Katie B

10/5/2016 10:53:20 am

Elder brother, this one would be pleased if you would continue with Cradle.

Will link

10/5/2016 12:40:23 pm

I hope that your wait will not be too long, little sister.

Adam

10/5/2016 11:00:31 am

You need to clone yourself and write all of them. You keep churning out these awesome books, get us all addicted. I just finished Soulsmith, but like any drug it made me want more.... I have read all of your books. I am hooked on all of your series... so get the scientist working on it. I NEED MY FIX! :-P

Will link

10/5/2016 12:40:48 pm

Instead of clones, how do you feel about arcane simulacra?

Crow

10/7/2016 07:35:04 am

Well this is an interesting conversation. Okay Will I have a serious question about cradle book 3 for you to ponder but first for those few that haven't read book 2. SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER ABORT READING NOW. In book two we saw him take his second step on him unique cultivation path. The first being him splitting his core the second being his iron body. So what is going to be his second iron body trait?

Shawn

10/17/2016 08:22:54 pm

I believe EE would be great for closure, because if the cage matches continue, then cradle or tgt will win. I also was wondering about the 2 souls portion and developing two iron body traits.

Wes

1/18/2017 09:03:22 am

Your writing ability has improved by leaps and bounds since Travelers Gate, which I thought was somewhat entertaining but I wrote you off after I finished it because of the lack of quality of your writing. Only after I ran out of books to read did I think about giving another one of your series a shot and honestly, I ordered a kindle sample of Unsouled expecting to be underwhelmed. I was completely and pleasantly shocked to say the least. It felt like I was reading a completely different and far superior authors work than the guy that wrote Travelers Gate. I am looking forward to the next book in the series more than any other book this year.

Will link

1/18/2017 09:29:25 am

Wes,

To say I completely understand is an understatement. I almost hate the fact that Traveler's Gate did so well, because now everyone reads House of Blades first and assumes I'm still writing like that.

I'd like to think that I AM a completely different author than I was when I wrote Traveler's Gate. I'm working on my tenth book now, and the experience I've gained over the last four years has been huge.

It's a great relief to hear that you've seen an improvement, and I can only try to continue to improve as I keep writing.

Thanks for giving me another shot!

-Will

Mark

1/28/2017 09:21:15 am

I realize I'm a bit late to the thread and decisions have most likely already been made. Cradle vs. EE is a toss up but Cradle wins because I felt Shera not killing Yala was out of character. And this will most likely bite her in the back and she knows this. (She was already mad about the aftermath of not killing Calder when she had the chance)

Also Darius just feels like a replacement Lucan.

I love your work and will be happy either way. Sorry for complaining.

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6/7/2024 02:42:50 am

Your encouragement is like finding the perfect puzzle piece, making your writing better and helping you improve!

YE7 link

6/7/2024 02:54:06 am

Creating engaging and approachable writing is akin to extending a warm invitation and kindling interest effortlessly.

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6/7/2024 03:01:18 am

Your appreciation means a lot! It's like putting together a puzzle—finding the perfect word is like finding that missing piece that completes the picture of your writing. Keep practicing, and you'll definitely see progress!

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6/7/2024 03:11:35 am

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In which we ramble on.
And by we, I mean me.