Kickstarter?

5/9/2019

EDIT 5/14: Wow, this has generated SO many comments. I'm diving in.

Over the last few weeks, I've had a couple of phone meetings with Michael J. Sullivan and his wife, Robin (mostly Robin), and they've had great success Kickstarting print runs of their books.

They suggested Kickstarter as something I might consider, so I thought I'd bring the idea to you, the fans.

Here's the concept: I don't need funds to write a book (the reverse, really: I need to write a book for funds), so I wouldn't be Kickstarting a book so much as special-edition print runs of that book. So there might be a limited-run signed hardcover version, paperbacks with alternate covers, whatever. Exclusive stuff.

If we Kickstarted something like Cradle #7, Uncrowned, the Kickstarter audience might even get the book early.

But these are all ideas at this point. Just dreams floating around in the ether. The compelling part of this to me is that Kickstarters are fun, this gives an opportunity to get fans involved, and it allows me to try projects I normally wouldn't, like limited-edition hardcovers.

What do you think? How would you feel about a Kickstarter? What sorts of things would you want to see as rewards? How was your week? Has everyone seen Endgame yet?

Discuss!

-Will

396 Comments

Aanu Ajayi

5/9/2019 03:52:54 pm

First commenter. I think it's a solid idea, anything that helps me get Uncrowned early gets the pass from me!

Autumn West

5/9/2019 04:20:10 pm

I agree! Anything that allows me to read Uncrowned early!

Josiah

7/3/2019 09:48:37 pm

Absolutely agree with this. I was really hoping for a patreon type site where we could get sneak peeks into uncrowned - but I guess we are out of Luck!

Tim Lundberg

5/10/2019 04:02:43 am

Will,
Love your work, honestly not sure why you haven’t announced your option for a streaming service, HBO, or movie deal yet. I’d love to have your stuff in leather hard bound and autographed. I’d actually love to buy a single version that included the kindle, hard back, and audio book at once like a blu-day that has multiple versions. Your stories are phenomenal, please keep it up.

Tim

Will link

5/14/2019 01:45:10 pm

Thanks Tim! I'd love some kind of animated adaptation someday.

Shaun Van Rensburg

5/10/2019 09:25:09 am

What's up Will. I'd be happy for you to incorporate a kickstarter program and would happily contribute to get Uncrowned early.

I'm in matric and I'm about to start exams so stress levels are rediculous at the moment

Philip

5/10/2019 02:38:46 pm

Usually "early release" actually means "delayed for anyone who didn't pay extra".
If that's the case, I am against.
But if you actually have a way to speed it up for Kickstarter, great!

Robin Sullivan

5/10/2019 03:08:48 pm

I'm not sure why you would come to that conclusion, but just to put you at ease. Will is basing his Kickstarter off of ours and the reward levels are set at the same price as the retail versions of the books.

Philip

5/11/2019 07:45:24 am

Within the Kickstarter sure. But are you saying that the early release for Kickstarter participants won't mean the public launch is delayed?

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 03:47:13 am

@Phillip - yes, for our Kickstarters the release date was not delayed. But It may be that Michael has a different release model than Will. In our case, we have the books written when we set a release date (which is generally 6 - 9 months in the future. Now, when that date is set, the book is not "finished" -- we still have to do (a) line editing (b) beta testing (c) layout (d) gamma reading (e) proofing and (f) running the presses such that books are in the warehouse several months before "on sale" date. We have "simultaneous" releases for ebook, audio, and hardcovers.

Now, Will may have a different release process. For instance, I believe he had UnderLord on "pre-order" for something like 3 weeks. So, in his case "early" may mean when the pre-order goes on sale. In Michael's case, the fans GREATLY appreciated getting the books early.

One thing I'm trying to talk Will through is moving his writing profile "to the next level" -- by including printed copies, and that does add some extra time to the release process. Generally you want simultaneous releases of all formats, but maybe his process won't absorb that kind of model easily. Right now we are in the "discovery" stage and nothing is set in stone.

Philip

5/12/2019 03:35:32 pm

Thank you for your reply.

Will link

5/14/2019 01:49:56 pm

Robin is of course absolutely correct, so just to elaborate a little: with Underlord, I already "delayed" the release of the ebook because of the paperback and audiobook editions, because the ultimate goal is to have all versions of the book release at the same time. We're talking something similar here. Also, as she said, not charging extra unless you want one of the extra-special-chocolatey-fudge-coated-super versions.

Philip

5/14/2019 04:45:58 pm

Dark chocolate?

Alex

5/15/2019 03:04:19 pm

Umm Will are you a YuGiOh abridged can? Maybe this is common knowledge but I didn’t realize!

Sudhir

5/15/2019 08:21:14 am

Hi Will, to me the value would be early access. I will pay for it as I love your books. Can you not give early access for a premium on Kindle?

Ronnie G

5/9/2019 03:55:46 pm

I would Kickstart the shit out of Uncrowned. Don't let your dreams just be dreams.

Jacob

5/9/2019 03:56:38 pm

Eh, Kickstarter rewards could be nice, but in my opinion they're not necessary. But if you want to release extra stuff...

My week has been tough with 2 sick kids, but endgame was fun! (Although i don't like what they did to the characters)

Will link

5/14/2019 01:51:32 pm

I thought the characters were handled with both respect and flaming electric guitars of awesomeness.

James

5/15/2019 04:32:21 am

It was brilliant! Especially how they showed how each character went down their own path of grief. And they juggled everything so well.

Also Will, you and Brandon Sanderson are my favourite authors! And if contributing to your kickstarter will get me a signed copy then I’ll be stoked!

Aaron

5/9/2019 03:57:06 pm

Man, I'd love a signed hardcover edition. I'd happily pay for that, though there is a very real chance I might beg and plead for hardcover editions of the rest of the series so they all look consistent on my shelf...

Tyaldan

5/9/2019 05:03:02 pm

Id love a full hardcover set of books. Not just the ones till now but all the future ones. I plan on buying a complete set when the series is done, autographed if possible. Only reason im not buying them now is i need to keep them alive till the end and thats hard with paperbacks. Hell i love the series so much that I would kickstart for the first time for hardbacks, especially if they were fancy.

Will link

5/14/2019 01:52:27 pm

My friends still troll me about a hardcover special edition of Traveler's Gate.

Jason

5/15/2019 01:13:10 pm

First time posting.. just want to say your friends are right on.. 😎. Can we get signed hardcovers of Travelers Gate as part of the Uncrowned Kickstart 😉

G Fisher

5/9/2019 03:59:29 pm

Love the idea of greeting the book sooner, always do the same with the Sullivan Kickstarters

Robin Sullivan

5/10/2019 03:09:42 pm

Hey, thanks for the support!

Nate Drevlow

5/9/2019 03:59:52 pm

Michael and Robin know what's up his writing is great and his contact with readers is awesome. So listen to them also I love kickstarers 😁

Robin Sullivan

5/10/2019 03:10:11 pm

Awww...shucks....thanks.

Michael

5/9/2019 04:01:21 pm

Pay some $$ to get an early print for “Uncrowned”?
Uh, you take PayPal or Venmo??

I would most likely pay for an early digital edition as well, so take my opinion for what it’s worth :)

Will link

5/14/2019 01:55:22 pm

I know, that was kind of an unfair question. But I promise you, you wouldn't want to read it TOO early in development.

Nirav link

7/30/2019 12:52:58 am

Actually, as somebody that is still trying to make time to write with that real life stuff continuing to get in the way, reading an early version as well as later reading the final version would be very helpful to read the changes you made going from draft to final. That’s valuable information for someone who is still learning how to craft a story that will be worth reading.

Thanks for your books. They keep me entertained.

TransEmo

5/9/2019 04:03:43 pm

I’d definitely be keen for a limited ed. hardcover set, sounds like fun.

Michael Ruurds

5/9/2019 04:04:15 pm

I'm up for this.

I'd still get it on Kindle and audio book as well. Ben Galley another self-publishing fantasy author I follow religiously also had success on Kickstarter.

Will link

5/14/2019 01:55:48 pm

Yes he has! I was looking at his stuff too, and the fan interactions there seemed like a lot of fun.

Webb Waites

5/9/2019 04:05:50 pm

I think the idea is great. However, like Aaron, is want hardcover editions of all the Cradle books so they matched.

Will link

5/14/2019 01:56:58 pm

Yeah, I know that if I do a hardcover Cradle printing I will eventually be obligated to print them all in hardcover for the collectors.

I understand: I own three different copies of the Wheel of Time series. Mass market paperback, hardcover, and ebook.

Gotta catch 'em all.

Ravi

5/9/2019 04:14:05 pm

Absolutely! I love the idea!

Vorstus

5/9/2019 04:21:19 pm

I'd buy it, but if you're going that route making it really special with both a single Uncrowned and full series hardcover goal would be great.

Will link

5/14/2019 01:57:44 pm

If I do indeed go this route and it works out, the plan would certainly be to do a full-series hardcover version of Cradle for the hardcore collectors out there.

Mikeal

5/9/2019 04:22:04 pm

Love the idea, my only thing is I wouldn't want just the 7th book I would want the whole set so they are all the same.

Will link

5/14/2019 01:58:07 pm

Yeah, I feel you. That's one of the things I'm definitely aware of.

John

5/9/2019 04:24:59 pm

I would love to get a way to get signed hardcovers. I just watched endgame last weekend, they did a really good job on it!

John

5/9/2019 04:25:17 pm

Would be on board for signed hard covers. Especially if we got advanced copies

nephi rowe

5/9/2019 04:26:31 pm

Can we kick start to have cradle made into an anime??

Ryan

5/10/2019 04:53:28 am

I would also like an Anime adaptation over a movie or live action TV series. I think An anime could be made true to the story. Just don't use Netflix to produce it. The CGI for most of there anime makes it unwatchable. Also avoid whoever did berserk season 2.

Noobmaster69

5/10/2019 11:31:17 pm

Ufotable is the only studio I’d want touching Cradle for unlimited budgetworks.

Will link

5/14/2019 01:59:11 pm

No, we can't allow ufotable to touch Cradle.

That would be all of my dreams come true at once. As you know, if you get everything you want in life in one fell swoop, you no longer have anything to live for and you die instantly. Science.

Diego

5/14/2019 04:08:30 pm

?? Not really. We have endless hunger, after some time we would just crave more. Its natural selection, sad really. We could have banded together to form a uthopia eons ago otherwise.

Noobmaster69

5/17/2019 05:03:45 am

... Worth it.

Jeff

5/9/2019 04:32:10 pm

I would absolutely pay for a hardcover set!

5/9/2019 04:33:15 pm

This is good idea. I mean if it fails, none is lost, and if it succeeds :D.

Finn

5/9/2019 04:34:12 pm

Amazing to endgame, and absolutely yes to Kickstarter!!

Lyndrek

5/9/2019 04:35:45 pm

Honestly, I would love to have a Kickstarter for a complete hardcover set of cradle books

Calvin Park

5/9/2019 04:47:12 pm

I'd love a hardcover for cradle #7...but, to be honest, I'd then want some option to get hardcovers for the previous six books as well. I think this idea definitely has legs.

Chris

5/9/2019 04:48:14 pm

One of the things Phil Tucker did in his Kickstarter was raise money for interior art (see: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/682901669/death-march-book-1-in-a-litrpg-trilogy/description ) and I thought it turned out well. I’d definitely pay to get the book early.

Adam

5/9/2019 09:45:09 pm

THIS!! we have a huge lack of quality fanart and this would help!

Jeremiah h

5/10/2019 02:21:08 am

There's a fair amount of good andl great stuff in discord along with commissions. A lot it is JazzyKandra's but there is other stuff as well.

Will link

5/14/2019 02:00:12 pm

Tbh I do like this idea, even as a stretch goal or something.

Kandra

5/14/2019 02:31:15 pm

I see my name, I must comment. I really like the type of exterior art you get in SA, in Cradle it could be similar, like examples of scales, robes, more advanced badges, etc. (but not maps). That would be super cool to see in the books, I think, but I'm an art nerd. xD

Daniel Jones

6/15/2019 02:57:59 pm

I agree with idea of additional art inside the cover!!!!!!

Cool Person

5/9/2019 05:02:14 pm

signed, early books! YES! endgame was great, one of my favorite marvel characters. I was a bit sad, but at least that part was realistic.

Will link

5/14/2019 02:00:51 pm

Big fan of Endgame. I need to see it more in order to know if I liked it better than Infinity War, but I greatly respect a well-written ending.

Christopher Robin

5/9/2019 05:06:03 pm

Will, do you have an estimated date for when your more detailed review of Endgame will be? That way I won’t have to keep checking your blog every day! 😂

Will link

5/14/2019 02:01:46 pm

I think the spoiler embargo is lifted, so I guess I could do it on Thursday.

Christopher Robin

5/15/2019 08:25:04 pm

Hurray!!

Veritas

5/9/2019 05:06:38 pm

I'd pay for a leather bound set of a completed series. Otherwise I'm only interested in the content.

William

5/9/2019 05:09:34 pm

The early access might be a problem for international backers with the time and expense of shipping.

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 03:51:51 am

If Will follows the format of our past Kickstarters, it' won't be a problem as you can buy ebook or print versions. For overseas people, they can opt for the ebook.

Kandra

5/9/2019 05:25:33 pm

I think this is an awesome idea. I'm not sure if rewards are necessary, but I do have some ideas if you're interested. Maybe putting in the name(s) of donors as some type of cameo might work for an upper-tier reward, maybe a shout-out on the blog for others (if that works), printed bookmarks with art of the characters/book symbols on them, custom t-shirts/beanies/mugs, art prints of some type (created by Micah Epstein, maybe?), character reference sheets, etc. Most of these are visual mediums, but I think these kind of rewards would be kind of cool to get and stuff.

Will link

5/14/2019 02:04:08 pm

Yeah, that would be neat! The ideas I listed are just because right now I only KNOW of one asset I'll definitely have (the book itself), so I was thinking of what I could do with that. Once we brainstorm and develop some more, I think there are a lot of cool things we could do. An acknowledgement/credits kind of thing, naming a character or location, prints like you suggest...loads of fun stuff!

Or indeed we could run a bare-bones Kickstarter this time and, if people enjoy it, maybe next time we could do other projects. Who knows? Always in motion is the future.

Jason

5/15/2019 01:28:23 pm

If you added art into the earlier books as part of the hardcover, this would be both differentiating and awesome. Would love to get a visual of Jai Long before and after his gold sign. Not to mention Orthos before and after Ghost Water

Rogue 9

5/9/2019 05:32:11 pm

I would totally do a Kickstarter for a full set of hard covers. I'm not really into early release action because if it was ready for release then it wouldn't be a early release. It's hard enough to wait for a book, but to be teased chapter by chapter, no thanks.

Robin Sullivan

5/9/2019 09:07:35 pm

The ebook wouldn't be "chapter by chapter" - you'd get the full ebook. For our most recent Kickstarter people received Age of Legend on April 9th and the official release date stayed unchanged at July 9th.

Phillip

5/10/2019 05:28:02 am

And thanks for that 😎 I now get to run that in my sisters face, since she didn’t do the Kickstarter like I told her to.

Christopher

5/10/2019 09:40:42 am

Can you go into detail on how this works? So the book would ready to be released on Amazon on April 9th but isn't officially released until July 9th? I don't think I agree with that method for Will if so.

Robin Sullivan

5/10/2019 03:20:03 pm

@Phillip - You are very welcome. Although you could "loan her" your copy - just saying ;-)

@Christopher - generally you pick a release date some time out in the future -- in our case it was July 9th. And that's when pre-order pages go up for people to buy. When we picked our July 9th date it was February and we had more stuff to do. The book was "written" but there was more polishing to complete including: line editing, beta reader feedback, layout, gamma reader feedback and final layout. We got the "final content" done by April 9th but the pre-order date can't be changed and the Kickstarter backers got their books. Producing a hardcover book takes more time because there are extra tasks regarding layout and dust jacket design and foil stamp dies and of course waiting for your place in line at the printer. The printer got their files in late mid April and we are going on the press next week and books will be ready to ship on 6/3. We'll have most of the books shipped to the Ingram Warehouse and then they need to ship to B&N and Amazon and we will be hard pressed to have the books in store by July 9th, but we are working hard to make that happen.

Bottom line...when you are doing just ebooks - you can hit publish and be done. But when you have print books, there is a longer lead time between "finished writing" and books available to buy - and in general you want a "simultaneous release" so yes the ebooks may have to wait until the print books can catch up to them. Now retailers don't like when you have one format available before the other, but since a Kickstarter is "direct selling" there is no reason to reward those who back the Kickstarter by getting the ebooks a few months sooner than the official release date.

I hope some of that makes sense.

RObin Sullivan

5/10/2019 03:22:47 pm

@correction....

Sorry I meant to say "there is no reason NOT to reward those who back the Kickstarter by getting the ebooks a few months sooner than the official release date."

I left out the very important NOT.

Christopher Maas

5/10/2019 07:55:13 pm

I appreciate the detailed response, Robin! Thank you.

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 03:52:59 am

@ Christopher - sure thing. You are very welcome.

Lorne Jacobs

5/9/2019 05:35:47 pm

I think a hardcover set would be amazing. I would hope that they would be made in a way that they all matched in the end. I think it would also be worth maybe trying to raise funds for a short animation movie or mini-series. Just a thought.

Will link

5/14/2019 02:06:01 pm

The idea would certainly be to provide the opportunity for people who want a matching set after the series is over to get one. As for animation, that is definitely my dream medium for Cradle or indeed for any of my works. I love animation; you can do so many fantastical scenes that would look ridiculous in live action.

But that's very expensive and complex and not anything I have any expertise in, so for now, I'm not pursuing it. For now.

5/9/2019 05:42:18 pm

Kickstarter is cool for limited edition stuff - however I enjoy the community hype that goes on when you release a book. I feel like that wouldn't be the same if you did an early release elsewhere. (please don't hate me, other fans!)

Robin Sullivan

5/9/2019 09:10:48 pm

FWIW, I find that Kickstarters are actually really good at generating "community hype" before the release of a book. You get a bunch of people who are in an "exclusive club" that have read the book and as they talk about how fun the read was, it gets others excited and pre-ordering.

Kevin

5/13/2019 04:18:02 pm

That sounds a bit awful, like when people come into communities bragging about getting ARCs. Rather undemocratic and cliquey.

I don't by paper books for anything but technical manuals and game books. This would be an extra cost for something that would likely be land filled in my case.

Robin Sullivan

5/15/2019 07:29:47 am

@Kevin - I guess I'm not communicating very well. Let me back up and try again.

1. The cost to people who participate in Kickstarters is the same as the people who buy through retail. The only difference is that the author makes more money.

2. The Kickstarter has "levels" and you back at the ebook level, or you can back at the paperback level. So you could buy the ebook through the Kickstarter and then you wouldn't put anything into the landfill.

3. Kickstarters are simply a way for readers to buy directly from the author so more of their money goes into pocket of the people who create it.

4. Whether the backers get their copies before the retail chain or not may or may not be part of Will's Kickstarter. In the case of my husband, the "rabid fans" have appreciated getting them early. Maybe that won't be something Will's fans want. We'll see.

Will link

5/14/2019 02:08:12 pm

I definitely hear that, and I have some of the same concerns myself.

However, I don't know for sure, and I'm a big fan of trying new stuff. If we tried it and the community generally felt like having two different releases diluted the hype, then next time we would do something different.

John Rowett

5/9/2019 05:44:23 pm

Yes! Love it! I would just ask that the print version also comes with a digital copy so I can read it wherever!

Robin Sullivan

5/9/2019 09:12:13 pm

Yes, we've been talking about Will about following our model which is every reward level has the ebook. That way people who want to keep their printed copy "pristine" they can read the ebook. I'm pretty sure Will would follow the same paradigm.

Jaeger

5/11/2019 07:11:33 am

What kind of price would we roughly expect to get early access to an EBook? I understand hard copies cost more and therefore the price will be more, or is this still all under discussion?

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 03:56:10 am

@Jaeger - we are at the very early stages...but if Will mirrors what I've done in the past the prices for the Kickstarter books is EXACTLY the same as the retail copies. In our case, that meant $10 for ebooks, $15 for trade paperbacks, and $25 for hardcovers. Will's ebooks run a bit cheaper than mine. But I wouldn't expect there would be any "premium" paid by Kickstarter backers. So, if his ebook is $6 that would be the price on the Kickstarter as well.

Aaron

5/9/2019 05:45:54 pm

I would love a hard cover of your book with some sweet alternative artwork on it. Only thing I would worry is affecting your Amazon sales. I want you to be successful as possible.

Robin Sullivan

5/9/2019 09:15:35 pm

If you want Will to be successful as possible, then supporting a Kickstarter will definitely work toward that goal. Kickstarters are essentially "buying pre-orders directly from the content creator." And because the retailer middle-men are cut out of that equation it's the best way to ensure the highest % of your money going into Will's pocket. For instance, if you were to buy a paperback for $15 from Amazon he might earn $2 - $3. But if you pay $15 for a paperback through a Kickstarter he would earn about $12. So the more people who "buy direct" the more money Will makes.

Paat

5/11/2019 11:21:09 am

While it may be true that the author receives more money for the book, on the other hand, how does the audience grow if he does not have the exposure on Amazon. I found his books , under the suggestions "if you like this author- " read one book and then started searching for more.

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 03:58:04 am

@Paat - Kickstarters don't REPLACE Amazon...it's just an "additional" sales channel. Future readers will continue to find his books the same way you did.

Merric

5/9/2019 05:47:10 pm

I’d definitely participate. I’d appreciate a hardcover or some special edition.

Cool Person

5/13/2019 06:14:10 pm

longest character: ﷽

strange text: ;̷̸̶̸̷̷̨̢̡̧̡̛̟̲̜̣͎̥̖̯̺͙̳̜̹͉̙͖̟̜̠̬̦̜̗̮̦͕̩̟͚͎̙̭̬̺̲̪͖̖̮̩͉͚̋ͤ̇̌̈̈́ͫ̓͌̓ͭ̈́ͩͯ̅̑̿͐̀͒ͣ̒͗͂ͩ̆͑̃̏̽͗̊ͨ̀ͥ̅͐͐̋ͮ̀ͨ̾͆͆ͥ͐͘̕͘͜͟͠͝ͅͅ͏̶̷̷̴̴̴̵̡̨͖͇͉̳̠̻͙̤̫̤̙̭̥̻͉͍̞̦͚͉̦̪̻̘̖̜̻͉̩̥̲͓͈͈͇̯̳͇̟̫̞͓̭̬͇̋̊͊͒ͪ̊̽ͥͮͬ̎ͭͪ̍̽͛̏̈́̋ͫ͗̆̋ͧ̀ͧ̐̓ͧ͊ͩ͗̒͐̀͊̈̍ͧͫͮ͊́ͩ̂̓͌ͣ̏́̀ͩ̽̓ͧ͛̎̿͗ͤ͌̓̏͛̂͘͘̕͜͜͢͞͞͝͡͠͞͞͡͞͞͡͡ͅ͏̨̡̢̩̳̥͉͙̝̩͉̣̙͇̳̘̫̠͉̟̑ͭ̔͊́ͧ̉̉ͤͨͬ̾̎ͩ̍ͫ̾̈̎̄ͦ̆ͧ̔͟͞͏̵̴̶̶̨̮̼̥͈͍̫̟̯͎̻͉̥̬̱̱̗͖͋͂͐̇̑̽̄̈́̀̊ͮͨ̆̑̊̽̚̕͢͞͏̸̴̸̴̴̸̴̶̵̷̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̛̛̣̟̙̠̙͍͓̩̭͕͈̼̪̝̩̹̩̦͖̘̲͍̳̱̹̜̩̼̦͖͙̭̞͕̗̲̻̰̫͙̱͍̹̟͎̮̜̣̩̙̻̯͕̣͈̬̟͔̭̅̒̇̒͌ͦͦͤ͋ͧͪ̐͊͂̐́ͪ̌͆̇́́͂ͭ͐̄͂̈́͗͗̽̀̒̀͑ͦ̓̒̽ͧ̓͐͑ͤͮ̓̏̅̂̒ͪ͋̄͂̽͆͐ͮ͂ͨ̈̓́́ͥ͐͐͊̈̍̓̆ͮ͋ͭ̅̉ͧ͑̑ͣ͆ͬ̈́̕̚͘͘͟͟͟͜͟͞͝͝͠͡͠ͅ҉̨̢̲̻͉̞͓̲̙̰͉͕̫̣̝̿̾ͥ̓͒̑͌̿̈́ͨͫ̀̍͝҉͈̝͈͔̘̙́ͤ̈̕͞͏̶̸̨̞̣̘͉̝̞̗̥̹̞͕̙͊̓͑̂̈́̃ͩ́͒ͧ̇͆ͭͤ̔͌͂̏̃ͤ̽͐͠͏̴̷̴̷̸̶̢̨̬̳̱̠͎̜͈̳̖̟͚͚̭̤̮͔͇͎͍͕̣̩͇̯̙̺̗͎͉̣͉͍̤̝̫̝͛̑ͫ͗ͩͩ̉̑̇ͩͥ͊ͮ͛̾̈̎́̐̉̊́̎̃̒ͭͩͬ̈́͘̕̕͘͜͝͞͝҉̵̴̸̸̴̷̡̢̡̨̛̛̙̦͔̝̗̱̪͇̜͓͖͉̫̬̹̺͓̮̥͎͍̤̤͙̼̫̰̮̗̝̟̰̤̞̩͙̰͕̟̆̂̇́̀́̓ͪ̂͑̊̋̓ͩ̓͋̈́̍̃̿ͣ̄͒̄ͣͥ͂ͭͧ́̀͛ͦ͆̀̌̈́͊̈ͦ͋͗̿͆̈ͭ̿̓͌ͫ̀̂͂̈́̉ͯͣ͗̚̚̕͢͢͢͞͝ͅͅͅ͏̨̢͚ͨ̈́͑̉ͪͯͯ̕͜҉̧̙̜ͧ͂ͬ̋

Cool Person

5/13/2019 06:16:29 pm

Well. for the record, I had no clue it could do that.

Will link

5/14/2019 02:09:09 pm

Well, that's terrifying.

John

5/9/2019 05:49:20 pm

I think some people may be misunderstanding the "early" part.

Funding a Kickstarter is unlikely to move up the earliest possible release date of Uncrowned. Will writes as fast as he can, and when he finishes, it is quickly sent through the editing process and released on Kindle ASAP.

Now, it is possible that he might DELAY the release of Uncrowned to the general public so that Kickstarters can see it first. But all that does is replace what would be a general release at a certain date with a limited release on that same date.

James

5/11/2019 03:12:31 pm

Yeah, I’m not a fan of having two different release dates. One for Kickstarter supporters and one for the rest of us fans who prefer to read on kindle. I do my best to support Will by reading it on kindle unlimited first then buy it again on Amazon.

However, Kickstarter for a Cradle anime, that I can get behind. I’d be a top tier supported for that.

Kevin O'Malley

5/14/2019 04:11:15 pm

If the ebook is a mobi, then you can mail it to your kindle email address and it is available on all your kindle devices like any other kindle release. Might not show up in your cloud reader, but you can save it to your dropbox if you need to.

Will link

5/14/2019 02:14:20 pm

This is all at the very early stages of conception at this point. I have no details ironed out, nor have I made any firm decisions, so everything I say could change as we investigate and plan.

But with Underlord, we started delaying the ebook by about a month already in order to launch the paperback and audiobook versions at (close to) the same time. First time we've ever done that; basically every other time I've been working on the ebook up until the very last minute.

Part of the concept here is to work within that extra time, because the audiobook takes longer than the ebook and paperback. So while I'm waiting on the audiobook for the official launch, I can do a Kickstarter launch with an ebook version and a paperback version. Then the official version launches closer to the audio.

...or something like that. I don't even have a book ready, so the details are all up in the air at this point.

Kevin

5/14/2019 04:07:05 pm

Hypothetically, a kickstarter digital release that is complete after the amazon window that would make it go live on the first of the month could be released on kickstarter before the next window to get it to release on the first.

The release on the first of the month being an artifact to get Amazon month by month bonus money. Why leave the cash lying on the floor after all.

But I suspect lining things up on the kickstarter backend is more difficult than it seems, I would imagine a month gets added to the release cycle, unless Will nails his initial estimate of completion, which is dark wizardry to me.

The real issue here is that while Amazon's 30% for all electronic media is high for established electronic artists, the rate they charge for print on demand is freakishly high. Amazon's cut is more like 80-85% on those, and if he can get a larger cut of that pie he absolutely should.

Offering a channel for new authors outside of the publishing house model is a good thing that Amazon does. What it does to established authors is not so good. I suspect that Will is now in a transition land, and that transition to big(ger) time may end up being unpleasant to some of us who like the sprint pace of current releases...

Which is as it needs to be, Will gonna need to buy the kids braces, just like us. He needs to look out for himself.

My main concern is that all my kickstarter projects are total pains in the ass. I just want to pay for the thing and have it show up when it is done. Not take my kickstarter QR code and paste it into the new point of sale website months after I could have bought the thing elsewhere.

Assuming the book is a format that goes into kindle using the mail to kindle email address, I am fine with downloading and sending an ebook file, but please, don't make me enter the purchase in four places.

Release it actually early, and keep it around 5 bucks, and I will buy it in more than one market. I start treating it as real money at 10 bucks.

Nate

5/9/2019 05:50:52 pm

I think you need to GET BACK IN YOUR CAVE, WILL! Who the hell let you out!? What in the hell happened to the ball and chain?

Dammit, somebody go fetch the warden!

Avinash

5/9/2019 10:48:25 pm

@nate
The warden seems to be missing
I think he bribed the warden with an early copy of uncrowned
Or hired the mistress of mist by promising to write uncrowned instead of OKAK so that she could sleep some more

Cool Person

5/13/2019 08:58:19 pm

I feel silly for asking this, but what does OKAK stand for? I know it represents Elder Empire, but I can't think of what OKAK could stand for.

Avinash

5/15/2019 06:46:05 am

@coolperson
Well it was announced so long ago that its understandable that its full form is lost to antiquity
But worry not i have reserched deep and in obsure tomes to bring you this
OKAK of killers and kings. Shera
OKAK of kings and killers . The pirate one.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:09:18 pm

NOOOOOOOO DON'T DRAG ME BACK TO THE CA--

The Warden

5/14/2019 07:05:51 pm

Get back to work slave! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!
Keep writing or else!

Michael Keating

5/9/2019 05:58:28 pm

Seems like a pretty cool idea
Any thoughts on how it might affect the audiobook aspect ? I’ve always been more of a listener than a reader

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 04:00:18 am

The audiobook wouldn't be affected. The Kickstarter would provide ebooks and print books but you'd continue to get your audiobooks the same you always do.

Will (not Will)

5/13/2019 06:53:20 am

@Robin, are there non-book pledge reward options (like art or author notes) that you have offered so that those of us who prefer the audiobook format can offer Kickstarter support for new books?

Robin Sullivan

5/15/2019 07:35:24 am

@Will(not Will) -- yes generally we like giving away things that are difficult to do without a Kickstarter. Examples include Screensavers of the artwork, a bonus short story, a "Making of ebook" -- which talks about some behind the scenes aspects, and for our latest Kickstarter we are doing music that is composed especially for the story. So there usually is a low-priced level ($2 - $5) where you get all the "bonus stuff" but no ebook or print book. At least that's what we've done in the past.

Diego

5/14/2019 04:18:32 pm

Im more concerned about ppl giving spoilers. Not sure i can resist temptation.

Scrantonius

5/9/2019 06:01:26 pm

I would personally go for most rewards for a kickstarter. I would prefer hard cover copies especially if it was for the whole series.

As far as early reading goes, I could take it or leave it. Don't get me wrong, as the books approach I check info on the books every hour for a month before hand but I wouln't want a delay for others to read the book or a copy that does not meet the standards of the official release.

Regardless, you have become my favorite author. Any perks that come from any of your books would be purchased in a heart beat.

Keep up the good work Will.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:10:49 pm

Aw, thanks!

Another idea we had was potentially a Kickstarter for my old work, like Traveler's Gate or Elder Empire (once that's complete) so that we could do hardcovers all at once.

Just ideas for now!

Ermal

5/9/2019 06:17:05 pm

I'd also love a nice hardcover set of the entire series, so I'd prob wait till it's done so they'd match.

Ian

5/9/2019 06:27:59 pm

Okay, everyone's super positive about this, so I'll play Devil's Advocate.

I really, really want hardcover copies of your books (signed or unsigned). However, I'm strongly against a Kickstarter unless you go in with eyes open and a solid plan.

The problem with a Kickstarter for someone who is producing digital goods is that people always underestimate the massive time sink that is order fulfillment and support. The typical path, particularly for authors who are almost exclusively digitally published, is:

* Create a Kickstarter promising early access to books, signed physical copies, and possibly other goodies
* Fulfill the early access, because writing is what they're good at
* Get lost in a morass of fulfillment issues, making their next book super late (due to lack of time, burn out, or both)

Either the Kickstarter has mediocre success, and you sink a bunch of (non-writing) time into it for meager profit (because never doubt, just running the Kickstarter requires a ton of effort), or it's a wild success and you end up having to sink so much time into just signing the darn books and trying to get them out the door that you barely get to write at all.

The Sullivans are atypical in that it's a pair with one producing and one managing the business aspects. That gives them significantly more leeway than most people producing digital goods on their own.

That said, as long as you aware of those pitfalls you can probably ameliorate them by setting expectations intelligently (your own included!), and/or by ensuring you have someone to support you through the process by taking care of all the dumb, non-creative junk that makes actually producing art difficult (like dealing with the inevitable issues and angry people when packages go astray, get destroyed en route, arrive later than they expected, etc.).

Good luck!

Robin Sullivan

5/9/2019 09:22:28 pm

You are right to raise the issues regarding fulfillment. But I have some really good resources that Will can use to handle that end of things. I can set him up with our fullfillment house who has shipped thousands of packages (and something like 5 tons of books) for us, and in all that time I think we've had 3 "go astray" and only 1 package that was damaged in shipping (they do a good job wrapping/using boxes to protect the books) and when there has been a problem the fulfillment company deals with them and not me. In any case fulfillment CAN be a huge time sync, but I think I've solved that problem and I'm more than willing to help Will with that end of things.

Cool Person

5/13/2019 08:56:57 pm

well, thats good. it would be bad if my early acces book was later than the normal book would be.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:12:46 pm

I definitely understand your concerns, Ian, and they're mainly why I haven't pursued a Kickstarter before now.

NOW, I have the guidance of those who have done this before (thanks, Robin!) and a team around me who can shoulder most of the work. This won't be primarily me personally leading the way; I'll mostly be writing.

Robin Sullivan

5/15/2019 07:37:01 am

You are welcome, Will.

Sam

5/9/2019 06:35:38 pm

I love all your books, and would be more than happy to support a Kickstarter.

Steve

5/9/2019 06:42:45 pm

Endgame violating their own time travel rules was annoying. Sounds like they're addressing it in Spider Man, though.

Book ends or limited run complete series could be a neat prize. Single book limited runs are a little weird.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:13:48 pm

Why did they violate their own time travel rules at the VERY END of the movie! They had done such a good job of hand-waving it until then!

My headcanon is that he just came back the normal time travel way.

Steve Christ

5/14/2019 07:21:28 pm

I suppose I should have mentioned spoiler alert or something... But oh well...

Loki blinking away with one of the stones was where I started scratching my head (lead in for his Disney+ show). But if the answer is:yes they broke the rules, now all the movies have to deal with fixing that... That would make some sense. The Spider Man movie trailer mentioned "multiverse" which is why I was thinking that's the way they're going.

Also, side note... I'm hoping there's some tie in to Oblivion Wine with regard to how the sword sage was able to get poisoned by a bunch of sissies in the first place.

gorge19

5/9/2019 06:51:23 pm

I think signed hardcover or leather bound would be amazing. I agree on that there should be an option to get the same for earlier books but that should be easy to set-up in the kickstarter rewards.
I don’t think an early release is necessary (though I might kick myself later for this) because I love (hate?) the buildup and I think the reading upon launch and discord interactions are great for your community of readers.

Lisa Herrick

5/9/2019 06:57:38 pm

I would love a Travelers Gate Omnibus..... Or Elder Empire.... I love a complete set.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:14:30 pm

That is another possibility, Lisa! We're definitely considering that.

Mike

5/9/2019 06:57:52 pm

I’m in. I think it’s a great idea. I’d also like to see signed copies of trade paperback and/or hardcover for the whole series.

Ambitious project

5/9/2019 07:00:05 pm

Can we Kickstarter a Cradle videogame?

Ryan

5/10/2019 10:35:17 am

Seconded. I would play the crap out of that game. Make it a rpg being able to pick your characters path. Yes please.

Timmy

5/13/2019 04:32:53 pm

I'll donate my life savings if this becomes a thing

Will link

5/14/2019 03:16:51 pm

That would indeed be an ambitious project!

I of course have no game development experience, so I'd be hiring a team or a studio, and most studios don't work on commission--they have their own projects to pursue. If I were to hire a solo developer or small studio, then we're talking something like a 2D JRPG, and the market for that seems...limited...unless it's REALLY good.

Having said that, all the statements I just made are basically based on my own impressions, so I could be completely wrong or missing the bigger context. So maybe someday!

Bobby Banes

6/4/2019 08:10:09 pm

I don't have any game development experience either. I guess you could hire a game studio to develop, but I wonder if that is how other games have happened. Like the Witcher series for instance. I assumed that the game studio decide they want to make a game based on a book series and then they would work with the author to create the game. I'm sure the contract could work many ways, but likely the author gets a portion of game sales or maybe just gets paid a set amount for the use of the original content.

Paul

5/9/2019 07:52:37 pm

Great idea. Also, for some extra funds/rewards, perhaps consider selling a few Tuckerizations. Those things are the coolest for fans.

Ashley

5/9/2019 08:06:06 pm

I'd be into that. 1 suggestion though is since it would be a custom printing that you make a signable spot on the outside of the front cover so it's visible when displayed. I hate paying for something that you can't even see and part of that is paying for the signature. Also, let's be honest Lit nerds... we don't want to pop a custom early print open and damage it. Any way to get a digital copy with the hard copy so you could read without worrying about the hard copy? I'd pay a bit more to get both. Maybe another donor level.

Robin Sullivan

5/9/2019 09:26:18 pm

Wow, that's really interesting...I've never heard anyone asking for a signing place on the front - For Michael's books it would feel like putting graffiti on Marc Simonetti's amazing artwork. I'd be interested in learning if others want an "external" signing rather than an "internal signing."

And yes, what we've talked about is all reward levels have the ebook bundled so if you want to keep your printed /signed copies in a pristine state, you can read the ebook.

Sancus

5/9/2019 10:50:37 pm

I own a lot of signed limited editions and I generally agree that it's not the greatest idea to put signatures on the art work, especially since quite often these types of editions have unique cover art.

Maybe if it included the artist's signature...

Mike

5/10/2019 09:40:54 am

I like the idea of a signature on the outside cover. It should be say enough to put a blank spot on the cover for the signature.

I said this on Will’s reddit page but I think Will should, maybe, provide an early edition for a fee but have the signed hard cover/trade paperback released after the “normal” release date. I say this because it almost feels like a punishment to the ppl who are not investing in the early release since the “normal” release date would have to be delayed due to additional editing time, print and bindery times, distribution etc. regardless of where I am at in my life I’d love the opportunity but in my younger years the extra $ would have been more than I could afford. this would also help save (theoretically) on shipping and handling. Shipping 1000 (example) books, each with different delivery timeframes is absolutely and extra charge unless your printer/shipping partner is doing this as a favor.

To summarize:
Offer the signed hard copy/trade paperback + ebook for an additional fee.
Release the Kickstarter ebook version early. I have no idea what a reasonable timeframe would be but I don’t believe it needs to be the final, perfect version.
“Investors” receive the signed hard copy/trade paperback 1-2 months after the “normal” release date.
Release the ebook on what would have been the normal release date.

I can’t speak for anyone other than myself but the signed copy will go on a bookshelf in my office and never be opened except when I’m having a bad day and want something to smile about.

Robin Sullivan

5/10/2019 03:34:48 pm

@Sancus - good to know I'm not the only one concerned that signing the cover would ruin the artwork. As for the artists signing them...that wouldn't be possible in our case as Marc lives in France and to ship them overseas for his signature then back to the US for Michael's signature and re-stocking would likely damage a lot of books and also would be REALLY expensive.

@Mike - I still prefer my signature inside, but I see what you are saying. It's interesting that some people here seem to think that access to the ebook early is somehow a "punishment," when in my eyes I see the opportunity to get it early as a good thing. Maybe Will's fans are different than Michael's...it's interesting and worth giving some consideration to. Just FYI, the books don't have different ship dates. The only way to do printing is to print as many as you can in one run so you'll have all the books printed at once. Your proposal is an interesting one and worth looking into. It's just really interesting that people here are opposed to buying the ebook directly from the author (which pays him more) and would much rather have have the author's income decreased by involving Amazon.

Ashley

5/16/2019 08:16:49 am

I see how that might clash with the artist's work if you didn't design a specific spot for it. But I don't mean sign overtop of the full art cover. If they designed a small blank box surrounded by artwork or scrollwork that fit with the overall design then it would work, in my opinion at least. I have books that are signed internally and hate that it just looks like a random copy sitting on a shelf. The extra special part is the signature. It's the thing that says we've got a 'real' connection to the author :) Again, just my opinion having signed books.

Jarthon

5/9/2019 08:29:20 pm

I very much would like a hardcover copy, but I also think that getting some art made for the most incredible scenes in the story (since your perfected wuxia style lends itself exceptionally well to epic scenea) and having them on posters or something would be really cool as well. A poster of the ghostwater battle with the dragon or the dual at the top of the mountain just before the blood Phoenix rose or that incredible fight with the underlords at the end of the book of the same name is a ok I really want out of life...

...well that and uncrowned.

Rumplestiltskin Wants dat Book

5/9/2019 08:30:14 pm

I would not only pay, I’d give you my first born for a chance at getting the next cradle book ahead of schedule

21st Gnome Legion "The Mighty Will Trappers" Tracker #453

5/9/2019 08:55:57 pm

Eh... Not the craziest about Kickstarter frankly.

I would be okay with a project for leatherbound copies of Cradle etc.., for those who want them but I would ask that the launch dates be unaffected. No sense in sowing ill will amongst the fans because some forked out more on a crowdfunding site for early access and others did not.

Robin Sullivan

5/9/2019 09:38:33 pm

I think you may be under the wrong impression. Our Kickstarters (and the one Will is planning) don't charge a premium. Our reward levels are set to the SAME prices as the retail chain. So the reader pays the same amount, but the author earns much more because 55% - 70% of your hard-earned money isn't being bled off by the retailers. Having more of the readers money going to the author is generally seen as a good thing by those that love a particular author.

So there is no "ill will" from the fanbase, in fact, it's just the opposite. They get excited about making something happen that wouldn't otherwise, plus as a bonus for supporting they get to read the book a few months early.

21st Gnome Legion "The Mighty Will Trappers" Minister of Propaganda

5/10/2019 06:01:45 am

While I am glad that Will would get more of my money, that was not the thrust of my post. I'm concerned that there may be Ill will between traditional buyers who would have to wait an extra month or two to enjoy Will's work while the Kickstarter backers have the novel early.

I am curious how one gets access to the Kindle version if one Kickstarts.

John

5/10/2019 09:33:21 am

"They get excited about making something happen that wouldn't otherwise, plus as a bonus for supporting they get to read the book a few months early. "

Bullshit. They do NOT get to read the book a few months early. The people that do not get into the kickstarter are having to endure a delay of a few months from when the ebook would otherwise have been released.

RObin Sullivan

5/10/2019 03:41:46 pm

@21st Gnome Legion - so I don't look at it as "traditional buyers have to wait." I look at it as there's an avenue for "people to get it early," which I guess is a potatoe potato thing. Now granted, for many of Michael's books we had very specific windows in which we had to release his books (due to a non-compete clause with his traditionally published books). So the retail release date was being dictated by Del Rey, and in our case the Kickstarter truly was getting them "early" -- Now this was true for our Death of Dulgath and The Disappearance of Winter's Daughter Kickstarters, and out Age of Legend Kickstarter didn't have a given window ... but ... we were doing self-publishing in a "traditional publishing" way where a date is set far out in the future - 6 - 9 months so pre-orders can begin and marketing and sales people can start selling the book. In that environment you can't just "move up" the release date - once it's set, it's set. So maybe it's that Will's typical release has been different than ours. And maybe he doesn't do the whole "get the book early" thing. But I can say that from my own very successful Kickstarters people have seen the early access to the ebook has a HUGE perk.

RObin Sullivan

5/10/2019 03:52:17 pm

@John well, that's not been the case with our Kickstarters. For two of our books the release date was dictated by windows due to non-compete clauses in our traditional contracts. So even if we had the books done a year early they could ONLY be in the retail chain starting in December 2015 and for the second book December 2018. In the third case, we were self-publishing but we also use a distribution partner for bookstore distribution and the release date has to be set 9 - 12 months before release because it takes that long to get ARC copies, get into the seasonal catalogs for bookstores to buy them, get the books printed and in the warehouses, get the pre-order pages up and running, and many other tasks that are involved when you sell printed books through the retail chain. So when we set the July 9th date it was like May of the previous year, and once set it can't be moved up...it can only be moved back and the retailers HATE it when that happens so you try not to.

So, bottom line in all of our Kickstarters there was a date set (a) long in the future and (b) wasn't able to move up so Kickstarter backers truly did get the books early.

Now, if Will sticks only to ebooks and doesn't up his game to the next level by including hard overs and paperbacks and bookstore distribution then you would be right. If all there is is the ebook then you publish it when its done - but even then...Will ran pre-orders for 3 weeks...and why wouldn't you want to get the book those 3 weeks early?

I may have misjudged Will's audience, and it might be significantly different than Michael's, so we'll have to take this all into consideration. But I back a lot of Kickstarters and I've run a lot of Kickstarters and they have always been win-win for both the author and the readers. We'll think carefully about what to do for this because you and others have raised this as a concern.

Robin Sullivan

5/10/2019 04:24:15 pm

@21st Gnome Legion - Sorry, I just realized I didn't answer part of your question. As to "I am curious how one gets access to the Kindle version if one Kickstarts."

Most people use BackerKit which has a built in system for delivering electronic files. Will uploads the file once and Backerkit sends the files to all the backers who are eligible to receive it. You can transfer it onto you kindle in one of three ways:

- Connect your kindle to your computer and drag/drop
- Email the ebook to the address of your kindle device and it appears
- There is an app (sorry forget it's name) but it's used to get ebooks onto kindles.

John

5/11/2019 12:38:04 pm

"Will ran pre-orders for 3 weeks...and why wouldn't you want to get the book those 3 weeks early? "

Will should clarify here, but I think that he still made some edits during those three weeks (he has only done preorder once, I think). So, unless they are just minor typos, I'd rather wait for the edits to be complete.

Another concern is exactly how the early ebook releases would be handled. What if the Amazon ebook release date is June 1, and the early release date is May 9. Today is May 11. What if someone wants to get a copy of the book today? Can they do it? Or are they out of luck if they did not get in on the kickstarter early enough?

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 04:05:37 am

@John - You asked, "What if someone wants to get a copy of the book today? Can they do it? Or are they out of luck if they did not get in on the kickstarter early enough?"

Of course this depends on how Will sets up his project. But if he follows our model, then yes, people who "missed" the Kickstarter can still "pre-order" after the Kickstarter is over and get the book ahead of the release date. There is a system called "BackerKit" that (a) manages backers and (b) allows for pre-orders to be made after the Kickstarter is over.

Mister Overtime

5/9/2019 08:59:52 pm

Mr. OT likes the classy hardcover full set idea. And also agrees with others that early access is not necessary and feels unfair to others.

It's just such a great series, it deserves to be sitting on the shelf in the MR-OT library looking fancy, like a leather bound set of Tolkien or Dickens. So that a curious guest can pull one off the shelf and ask what is this thing, and MR-OT can say "Ah, my friend! This is something special. Let me show you..."

Captain Spaulding

5/9/2019 09:05:06 pm

I'd pay for something like the Codex Gigas, but for like a compendium of your works.

Michael

5/9/2019 09:05:38 pm

I don't care if you sent it to me in an envelope of just loose leaf pages, if I can get Uncrowned early I would happily give to a kickstarter or patreon. Endgame was awesome imo

James

5/9/2019 09:23:20 pm

Try a presale and if numbers justify it then move forward with it

Robin Sullivan

5/9/2019 09:41:51 pm

That's exactly what a Kickstarter is. The author puts up copies of the book for pre-order, and if there is enough demand, then it funds and the hardcovers are produced. If there is no demand, than the project doesn't fund, no readers are charged, and the author releases in ebook only, or maybe ebook and print-on-demand paperbacks (which are more costly to produce).

Sancus

5/9/2019 10:46:45 pm

I would definitely buy limited edition hardcovers of anything via Kickstarter. I frequently buy Subterranean Press editions of various authors and greatly enjoy them.

I will say that managing a Kickstarter and printing is quite a lot of work, more work than most people on the outside probably realize, so I hope you have help with that. But having talked to people who have done it, I'm sure you're very aware of that :)

Robin Sullivan

5/10/2019 03:53:43 pm

Yes, Will has helper bees and also can follow in the footsteps of myself and Michael, and we've engineered it in a way that it's not too bad.

Will link

5/14/2019 04:25:49 pm

Robin is the repository of all knowledge. She is my guide, my wizard mentor, and my swarm of worker bees and I follow her direction.

Extesian

5/9/2019 10:52:04 pm

I'll give you regular money for any purpose your books are so storming cheap. But for Brandon-stle leatherbounds with commissioned art? I'll give you enough to get in trouble with my wife.

Extesian

5/9/2019 11:01:18 pm

Hmm can't edit? Well I'll add to this wisdom that you could consider a patreon arrangement. I would happily contribute and it adds up quickly.

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 04:07:13 am

@ Extesian - Patreon works best for "ongoing content" -- like someone posting "what I wrote this week" but for a "finished product" - Kickstarter is a better fit.

Will link

5/14/2019 04:25:10 pm

Never mind, I'm canceling the whole thing.

I'm not foolish enough to get you in trouble with your wife.

Extesian

5/16/2019 12:47:59 am

Heh :)
I confess to lying. Will, you and your team sent us a wedding card, which just blew us away. You are currently her favorite person. I'll regain that spot one day, but until then nothing related to you will get me in trouble. So get the Kickstarter going quick ;)

TsukikageRyu

5/9/2019 10:57:39 pm

I think using Kickstarter for specific, specialized print runs is a good idea. You've likely already discussed the logistics of doing a big print run with the Sullivans: storage, shipping, etc, so I won't bother with that stuff here. You already know you've got a sizeable enough audience too. So all you really need to know are 1) which book(s) to try first, 2) what perks/stretch goals to offer, and 3) maybe what size print run to shoot for in this first venture.

A nice hardcover Traveler's Gate omnibus edition would seem pretty nice. It's your oldest work, it's popular, and it's the series that could benefit the most from some updating (new cover art, interior maps, etc). However, Cradle is the money-making series, and you'd likely have a larger demand for something like that. I wouldn't start mid-series with something like Uncrowned.

There's always some great perk options: tiers for signed copies of the book, variant covers, posters of book covers or artwork, etc. Bonus points if the Traveler's Gate Omnibus come wrapped in chains ^_^

I'd personally prefer to see hardcover editions over paperback. I could see doing paperback runs in the future, but for an initial Kickstarter, I think a nice hardcover is the way to go. Anyone who wants a cheap copy of the book will go digital, and anyone willing to spend extra for a physical copy would likely prefer a hardcover that will last. Sanderson's Stormlight Archive hardcovers are beautiful works, and I would love some Will Wight editions to sit on the bookshelf right next to them.

tl;dr probably do a hardcover Traveler's Gate Omnibus or Cradle 1-3 hardcover. Do a limited initial run for this first Kickstarter (500/1000/5000, whatever you feel is right based on your own private readership stats) . In addition to the basic hardcover, offer some limited tier perks. IE, if doing a 5000 edition print run, offer a tier limited to 500 buyers that get a signed edition, or one with a variant dust jacket or something.

Will link

5/14/2019 04:24:40 pm

Yeah, you and I are on a similar page here. On the one hand, the Cradle iron is hot, so that's where I want to strike. On the other hand, a complete series makes it so tempting to do hardcover special editions. A hardcover Traveler's Gate omnibus or box set with new covers would be super cool.

Whatever we do, there will be some kind of limited-edition version like you're describing.

Каша

5/9/2019 11:11:32 pm

Dear Robin...before I kick in my "yeah" vote, please explain a little further how the Kickstart pre-release does not negatively effect the "promotion effect" built into Amazon digital releases.

As I understand it, an author releases a book let's say on Feb 29 and the masses of loyal fans buy. Thus, the book has lots of sales on those first few days and immediately skyrockets in Amazon's best sellers lists, which are based on "how many bought this book today". The publicity from the best sellers lists leads to exponential sales. This last sentence is an assumption on my part. But if true, and the core of Will's fans already own the book..then Feb 29 rolls around, and there is no sell bump, no best sellers list, and therefore lower overall sales.

You have a great point = a greater % to Will..which is super! But the built in publicity snowball effect that comes with Amazon self-publication makes me wonder if Kickstart is really worth it.

Dazzle me with some convincing proof, and I'm in. As in, "if you by a hardcover early then the digital copy is still delivered on opening day negating everything you're worried about." That would work.

Robin Sullivan

5/10/2019 04:18:53 pm

@Kawa - Yeah, I know how Amazon algorithms work, and Will and I discussed this at length. Here's why it's not a problem. Quite frankly, the number of sales that are bled off in a Kickstarter are relatively insignificant to the sales that will go through Amazon.

Will's most ardent fans will back the Kickstarter, but most people won't even know about it. The Kickstarter runs for a very short time and it does so weeks before any serious "ramp up" in sales start. By the time Will puts up his pre-order page (which IIRC was 3 weeks before the release) he's only lost a few thousand sales (we had the 3rd most backed fiction Kickstarter of all time, and it only had 2,553 backers.) Which is a drop in the bucket compared to the # of sales Will had in (a) pre-orders and (b) in first-day sales.

Quite frankly, due to the massive size of Will's fandom, I don't think there is anything he could do to NOT make Cradle #7 hit the top of the charts again. After all, between now and then his readership is going to continue to grow.

I don't want to expose Will's numbers...but even though the Kickstarter will be widely successful it will be minuscule when compared to what the 800# Amazon will generate.

Now, as I mentioned, Will will make much more money from Kickstarter sales because the "take" is only 5% verses 30%. So let's say he had 3,000 Kickstarter sales at $7 and the book was priced at $6.99 on Amazon. The KS sales would net him $19,950. Whereas if they were sold through Amazon he would earn $13,631. So, by doing the Kickstarter Will earns $6,319 more and the readers pay the same amount.

Now, let's assume the Kickstarter is twice as successful an he bleeds off 6,000 sales. It's still not enough to make a significant impact on his Amazon ranking. It's "possible" that he hits #5 again and he may have otherwise hit #4, but the difference between those two spots isn't significant. Now, if I thought he would hit #1 without the Kickstarter and and miss #1 with it - we wouldn't even be talking about it. But from my pretty well educated knowledge of what sales levels reach what ranking. I don't see the Kickstarter sales (even if they are high) as having any significant impact on his rating.

Again, this is based on Will's numbers and for another author I may make a very different recommendation.

And yes, the money thing is an issue with me. I've been in this business a long time, and I've seen how the vast majority of reader's hard-earned money goes to all kinds of people rather than the author (retailers, agents, publishers, distributors, etc.) and I'm all about helping authors to maximize their income (while not hurting their readers). This is just one technique that I've found has worked well for us and I think it will work well for Will.

I'm sorry that I can't fully dazzle you because that would require sharing private sales numbers that Will has shared with me, and me also exposing sales numbers for other authors I know. But at the end of the day you either look at my credentials and believe I know what I'm talking about or you don't. Will's a smart guy and if he thinks I'm steering him wrong, he won't listen to me.

Kevin

5/16/2019 01:52:23 pm

The best thing about the kickstarter and patreon trends is opening up the line of discussion and awareness of the fact that writers are doing this as their jobs. It is how they earn money. To eat. And maintain shelter. And send their kids to college one day.

If it feels weird to the reader to talk about how their X$ is divided, imagine being the artist and having to essentially pass a hat. There are few artistic types who also share the money side of sales in personality types. An introversion extroversion thing in my opinion.

I am glad that Will has people who can go to bat for him in this way.

If the Kickstarter lets Will make a good cut on paper books then it is all for the good. I personally have no problem format shifting an ebook to amazon, though logging into Kickstarter sends me into a low key rage based on other projects I backed in the past. I doubt seriously that Will will sell us something that never ships, or switch the backend process, or bury us in email spam about tangentially related things, but to me, that is the kickstarter experience.

As long as we understand that Will is in a period of explosive growth, and that growth was only possible so far to the Amazon platform, then we all know the issues that we face. Amazon bleeds you dry, and they are still almost the best game in town. Traditional publishing would have will still writing part time and probably getting a spec contract about now, Amazon has let him grow as an artist while still getting paid. Taking a minimum of 30% the whole time.

As always, $20 for early access, and I don't tell nobody. Kidding, not Kidding.

Ian Covert

5/9/2019 11:17:25 pm

I will literally pay any amount you want to get to read that book early. I. Need. It.

Nate C.

5/9/2019 11:34:26 pm

I would contribute to this Kickstarter as maybe one of your main supporters from Africa!

Justin C

5/9/2019 11:59:01 pm

This sounds like a good idea! Special edition hardcovers would be cool, but i’d like to see some collectible items too. Maybe you could get 3D figures of some of the characters modelled. Would love a figure of the Phoenix on my shelf.

Gabriel layman

5/10/2019 12:50:32 am

I think it sounds pretty great, I would love some fancy hard covers for some of your books.

Jamie

5/10/2019 12:51:36 am

Do it do it!!!

You would be doing this with the entire series, right?! Because I think that hard cover set would look BEAUTIFUL on my book shelves!

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 04:09:40 am

Yes, there would be a way to get just the one book or the whole series.

Felix W.

5/10/2019 01:00:39 am

While the idea of a bunch of cradle hard covers - possibly signed, sitting on my shelf tickles my drive as a collector; up til now I've read cradle on kindle and will in all likelihood continue doing so, unless I magically end up with a bigger place with more shelf-space.

So what I'd rather wish for - both for myself and for others that have also gone digital instead of paper - would be some more contextual content..
Maps, a sketch of the madra system, maybe a portrait of one of the MCs, a old skysworn wanted poster of a naughty haughty Eithan, soulsmithing blueprints.. basically nearly any- and everything would go - yes, your cradle series is THAT addictive :-D

E.G. If you were to commission a painting of the Madra-system from Alex Grey, I'd kick some bucks your way for a peek ^^
I think that could be a perfect merge.
( FYI e.g. https://www.zamnesia.com/img/cms/Blog/Visionary%20Art/Alex%20Grey/Alex_Grey-Praying3.jpg)

Sam

5/10/2019 01:04:39 am

Would definitely get involved with a kickstarter campaign, especially ones involving early book release.

Ren

5/10/2019 01:15:18 am

If it gets me leather bound hard covers of the Cradle series, then please do it!

Asura

5/10/2019 01:39:41 am

I'd buy a hardcover copy of all your books and getting book 7 early hell fucking yes ;D it'd be interesting to see how many of your fans would back this.

Rob

5/10/2019 03:14:57 am

I love the way the Sullivans do their Kickstarters, but since I do those books in audio they often don't appeal to me beyond simply supporting them.

I'm a bit OCD about my reading that I want every book of a series in the same format.

So if you did a Hardcover for the next Cradle book, I'd want an option to get Hardcovers of the whole series, otherwise I'd just back if it meant getting the next eBook early.

Robin Sullivan

5/10/2019 04:28:47 pm

You'll never hear us complain about people wanting audio books! Hopefully the other "bonus perks" make the support worth while (like the free short stories and video conferences and such).

Yes the plan would be to have all future books also have Kickstarters so you can eventually get a full set. But it would probably be best not to wait until they are all done as a book here and there is manageable on a budget but getting them alll at once is likely to be a pretty big financial hit.

Adam

5/10/2019 03:48:11 am

If this leads to the book being a month earlier that expected, I am all for a Kickstarter.

Pat

5/11/2019 11:41:35 am

Think about it, The book will be out later, typesetting, binding, editing, signing, mailing will all delay the books actual release to you. All of these things have to happen after the book is written and has gone through multiple proof readings. At the best case scenario, the kickstarters will get the book a month after it is written and the rest of the audience two or three months after that. Instead of waiting 6 months for Uncrowned you will wait 7-9 months.

Will link

5/14/2019 04:20:46 pm

Your logic is sound, Pat, but our whole plan is for this not to be the case.

I've described this in more detail in other comments, but TL;DR - starting with Underlord, I sat on the completed ebook for a while anyway in order for the paperback and audio editions to be produced. The plan is for every version of the book to be available as close to launch as possible, so you can read the book at launch regardless of your platform of choice.

The Kickstarter would end and be fulfilled in that time in between. So hypothetically if the release is February 1st, the Kickstarter would end (let's say) January 1st and books would immediately begin shipping (or your ebook would be immediately emailed to you).

Or no Kickstarter, and it just comes out for everyone on February 1st.

That's the SORT of thing we're talking about, though again those dates are made up. On my own, I would never dare attempt it, but the Sullivans have run several Kickstarters to great effect. Also, I have THE TEAM now, so the bulk of this would fall on them.

And of course if we tried it once and it didn't work, we wouldn't do the same thing again. I'm more than willing to adapt.

Stephen

5/10/2019 03:51:56 am

I would definitely put money down for a kickstarted project on this idea. I wouldn’t go crazy with the extra incentives though, that’s where I’ve seen and read about a lot of projects failing to meet expectations.
My preference would be some extra world building content in the printed copy that isn’t included in the ebooks yet. Maybe a short story or even some of content from the Abadan archives that the other fans have been compiling. Whatever you end up doing I think we will all eat it up in the end anyway.

Christopher

5/10/2019 09:26:25 am

I agree with Stephen, keep the rewards minimal. I would avoid releasing early as well, as you will get flak for it.

5/10/2019 04:28:06 am

I could not think of anything I'd be interested in kick starting for an author who is already established and producing. But, I did think of something. I'd kickstart a redo of the audiobooks of House of Blades. Sorry Will but I never was able to get into your self narration.

Davis

5/10/2019 05:18:27 am

I’m not on board with the idea of an “early release” Kickstarter. Frankly, that seems like a bit of a misnomer, because what you’re actually talking about doing is a delayed release for everyone who didn’t contribute - sitting on the completed book so that your contributors get a sense of exclusivity.

To be clear, if you do go in this direction I would support in order to get access to the book as soon as possible, but I don’t understand why you would choose to segment you readers into the haves and the have-nots. It honestly seems almost predatory - “unless you’re ready to prepay for this book, you’re gonna wait an extra 2 months to get it after it’s complete”

Madeline

5/10/2019 08:39:13 am

To me the predatory part isn't the prepaying factor, it's the fact that it FORCES me to buy two copies of the book if I want it on Kindle and also want to read it as soon as it comes out. I'm likely to buy physical copies of all of Will's books eventually (hard to loan my Kindle copy to a friend), but I prefer to buy them in my own time, as my slow reading friends finish the other ones I loaned them. Not immediately urgently needing to buy two copies as soon as they're available to ensure that I get both of my goals (finishing the story and getting a portable copy) completed asap.

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 04:14:02 am

No, you would not be forced to buy two copies. Our Kickstarters have ebook only reward levels. You can choose to get your ebook from the Kickstarter or from Amazon.

Will link

5/14/2019 04:13:29 pm

I honestly have concerns about splitting the fanbase as well. The excitement around the Underlord release was unreal, and I have no desire to divide that in half.

I certainly don't intend anything predatory here. I'm not trying to squeeze you dry, I'm just looking for a way to both engage the community (in a Kickstarter) and provide something that people have been requesting since House of Blades (special edition printings).

For one thing, I'm not "double-dipping" so to speak in order to get people to buy two copies. If you bought the ebook directly from me in the Kickstarter, it would be in a file format that works on your Kindle, so you wouldn't have to buy from Amazon at all. Unless I guess you wanted to for some reason. It would also be the same price as buying it at release.

If you bought a special-edition paperback (or a normal paperback) in the Kickstarter AND an ebook, then sure you'd be paying twice, but that's the same as if you bought a physical edition and a digital edition now.

For another thing, starting with Underlord I already sat on the completed ebook for a while in order to let the production of the paperback and audiobook catch up. Before that, the paperback and audiobook were many months behind the ebook, but now I'm trying to make sure that everyone can get the book at launch (or as close to launch day as I can make it) regardless of what platform you prefer to read on.

Let's say that I was planning on releasing Uncrowned in February (NOTE: I have no release plans, this is a hypothetical date, don't lynch me). I complete the ebook in December, and I'm waiting on the paperback edition and audiobook edition to be ready, so they go into production.

Now let's say the Kickstarter ends in January. I could send out the ebook immediately, because it's ready all along, and this smaller shipment of paperbacks could be printed early while the main printing is still in production. So the Kickstarter people get it in January and the main audience gets it in February.

OR everyone gets it in February.

That's the sort of thing we're talking about (not using real numbers, because of course this is all hypothetical at this point).

The intent behind the Kickstarter is not "How do I squeeze out as much money as possible?" but rather "How do I do something fun and rewarding that will serve fans well?" That's it. That's the only discussion we're having.

And based on the Sullivans' Kickstarters, it looks like THEIR fans were both happy and well-served by Kickstarter, which is what started this whole conversation.

Kevin

5/16/2019 01:57:27 pm

FEBRUARY?!? I CAN'T WAIT TO FEBRUARY. WHY DID YOUR IRON CLAD COMMITMENT TO RELEASING UNCROWNED NO LATER THAN FEBRUARY HAVE TO BE SO FAR AWAY?

Mark

5/10/2019 05:19:59 am

I wouldn't mind throwing some money at a kickstarter. And I think it would be cool to have a signed luxery leatherbound edition. BUT I don't think it's fair to release uncrowded early for kickstarters only. In fact I think it ought to be the other way around. It takes time to print and sign and in the end it would actually mean a delay for the ebook. And just releasing the ebook for kickstarters only rubs me the wrong way :)

Will link

5/14/2019 03:56:55 pm

Yeah, I can see that, Mark. If I do go through with this, and fans end up not liking it, then I won't do it again. No problemo.

As for the printing and signing meaning a delay, that shouldn't actually be the case. I've been waiting for the audiobook version to be produced anyway (starting with Underlord, that is), so I'm already waiting a little after the ebook is complete. This shouldn't take any extra time.

Phillip

5/10/2019 05:40:54 am

The only Kickstarter I have ever done was for Michael Sullivan’s last book. If you can handle doing Uncrowned in anything close to the same manner, please please please do so. I would love to get my hands on this book early, I would love to add to my book collection, and I know you have a great community that would support this Especially if you get assistance from the sorcerously amazing combo of Michael and Robin. I don’t know how they have time to churn out great literature and also reply to every bit of fan mail they receive.

I know you wouldn’t be asking a premium for an advanced copy... but most of us would pay it anyway.

Robin Sullivan

5/10/2019 04:31:43 pm

Why thank you for your very kind words.

Champ

5/10/2019 05:41:54 am

Id love having a hardcover cradle book (and eventually the full series) but living in Chile would force me to pay double (the tax for shipping is astronomical). Kickstarters usually have a "pay and get stuff before everybody else" so first youd have to consider releasing stuff early and do you even want that? I dont like the kickstarter thing but as far as i now im the only chilean in your fanbase, so if youre not sure make a voting thing or something. i love you 3000 <3

Will link

5/14/2019 03:54:17 pm

<3 back at you, Champ

Yeah, international shipping can get rough, but there would certainly be an ebook reward tier that wouldn't cost you any extra.

Two

5/10/2019 05:45:02 am

I think this would be a great idea. I do however disagree with most of the people here in these comments (though it seems Reddit shares my opinion)I don't think that an early release of the hard cover would be amazing. Limited runs of anything in a good quality are by nature kinda expensive and I personally would like a finished copy. I'm still way down for this Kickstarter though

Adam

5/10/2019 07:17:23 am

I love the idea of a Kickstarter for things like signed editions, special dust covers, whatever. But I hate the idea of early access to a book. Maybe a sneak chapter or something, but please don't isolate poorer fans and create an a haves/have nots situation. I feel like creating an environment where people are ducking spoilers and unable to discuss the books within their community is a poor decision.

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 04:21:24 am

If Will follows the same paradigm as our Kickstarter, there is no "haves/have not" for "poorer fans." We priced the ebook level for Kickstarters at the same price as the retail price of the book. So, people can get their copy get their books through (a) the Kickstarter, (b)on a "buy direct from the author" pre-order page or (c) on Amazon. In each case, the price to the reader is the same...the only difference is that Will earns more money when readers purchase directly through him because Amazon doesn't get their cut.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:52:19 pm

Like Robin said, the only more expensive parts of the Kickstarter would be fancy cosmetic stuff. The ebook would be priced the same as if you got it on the Kindle store. And if you have no money but you have Kindle Unlimited, then you can still borrow it normally once the book releases.

However, I will say that I AM still a little concerned about splitting the fanbase between the Kickstarter and the official release. I don't want half the community to be unable to talk about it for a month (or whatever) before the rest of the community reads it.

Having said that, I don't actually know if it would be a problem or not. MOST fans don't participate in online discussions, so it could be that everyone who would be talking about it would have backed the KS. Or it could be that having some people know what happens actually INCREASES the fan discussion prior to the book, meaning the fan experience at launch is actually improved.

I don't know, I've never done anything like this. That's part of why it appeals to me: I like doing new things. And the Sullivans certainly have a strong fanbase that enjoys their Kickstarters, so there are several successful examples. Plus, if it didn't work out well for the fans the first time, we could just...not do it again.

Jesse Kaukonen

5/10/2019 07:25:36 am

Personally I'm don't see the appeal of kickstarting a book release. Instead, release the book when it's done, not when it's early.

Collector's edition stuff is something I could see worthwhile for a kickstarter. Custom editions with world glossary in them, maps (because we all know you won't otherwise do that Cradle map), coins and other useless junk.

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 04:23:48 am

In our case, we did both. The Kickstarter people got two versions of the book (a) the version that was sent to gamma readers, and a month later they got the "official" release of the book. The only difference between the two copes was a few typos and addition or removal of commas that were found by the proofing process.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:47:56 pm

Yeah, I'm not proposing kickstarting the BOOK so much as the special-edition runs OF that book. So if that's something you want, cool, Kickstart! If not, don't!

All of those things (other than maps) are possibilities for a special edition. Or for a stretch goal or something maybe, idk. The specifics are still up in the air, I just wanted to get a read of the room and see if people were even generally interested.

Jeremiah

5/10/2019 07:52:05 am

I'm fine with no early access. That might mess with Amazon exposure and such so might do more harm than good.

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 04:25:55 am

FWIW - Based on (a) expected Kickstarter numbers (b) Wills pre-order sales numbers (c) first day sales numbers, and (d) first month's sales numbers there should be no affect on the Amazon ranking. Bottom line, the number of orders "bleed off" by the Kickstarter are a drop in the bucket to what will be processed through Amazon.

Matt

5/10/2019 08:23:53 am

I think a Kickstarter for a book is pretty meh since you’re writing and releasing it anyway. That being said, I’d put down money for an Unsouled comic book.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:45:33 pm

Yeah, what I'd be Kickstarting is the special edition printings and not the creation of the book itself, so if you don't care about special editions then no problem!

Madeline

5/10/2019 08:29:31 am

I wouldn't be happy if the Kickstarter audience got books EARLY, because while I prefer reading physical books, my current life schedule makes being able to read books on Kindle a lot more practical. Being forced to wait to read a book until I get home because I don't have it on Kindle and I couldn't bring the book with me on the several hours of errands I have to run before getting home is TORTURE. If the Kindle release happened at the same time as Kickstarter releases, I would be happy, and probably buy both Kindle copy and participate in the Kickstarter, but after the rage inducing experience of being stuck at a ski resort in Colorado sick when the new Wheel of Time book came out and being unable to find a bookstore, let alone a bookstore selling the new book, and being unable to buy it on Kindle because lol "we want to force Kindle readers to buy two books to boost our sales" I really, really loathe "if you want to read it soonest and want to have it on Kindle for easy portability you are forced to buy two booos" scenarios.

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 04:28:10 am

The Kickstarter provides for both ebook and physical copies. So, no, you don't have to (a) wait or (b) get forced into buying a print copy you don't want. The only difference is whether the book comes directly from Will or from Amazon. When it comes from Will he earns a bit more.

Madeline

5/12/2019 09:33:20 am

Oh, so I'd still be forced to go home and download the e book on my computer to then transfer it to my Kindle?

That's still not good. With Amazon, when Will published the book on Kindle, it downloads automatically, and I can start reading it wherever I am. If I'm on vacation and I don't have my laptop, I get the Kindle book. If I'm several hours away from home waiting for people I'm supposed to meet, I get the Kindle book. If it's late at night and I've already turned off my laptop... I get the Kindle book.

But non Kindle ebooks don't auto download like Amazon's books do.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:44:40 pm

Yeah, it's not as convenient. I don't think it's terribly INconvenient, since I email files directly to the Kindle app on my phone all the time, but it certainly would be less convenient than buying on the Kindle store.

If we do go this route, then people who are unable or unwilling to participate in the Kickstarter would still be able to purchase it normally on Amazon when it comes out, same as always.

IF indeed we do this, and if an early release is part of the campaign. Like I said, nothing is set in stone yet!

Robin Sullivan

5/15/2019 07:48:27 am

@ Madeline - transferring from your computer to the kindle is ONE way to get the book on it. I read from a tablet and I also have access to the Internet on the tablet so I can (a) access my Backer Kit account, and when I click on the .mobi it asks me if I want to open it with my kindle app and I say yes. Without knowing exactly which kindle you have, and what ability it has to get "online." But if that's an issue for you, by all means buy it from Amazon - the price is the same either way.

kevin

5/13/2019 04:47:20 pm

If the PDF got mailed to me, so I could forward it to Amazon kindle address, no biggie, but kickstarter is a spam factory in my experience. Just take my money and send me thing.

Madeline

5/14/2019 08:40:28 am

Is this a feature on newer Kindles that ebooks can be sent to an email address and thus be put on the Kindle? My old kindle, which I have no desire to replace because it was my grandmother's, doesn't appear to have this feature.

kevin

5/14/2019 04:47:11 pm

Responding to Madeline here...

I have a first edition kindle ( I paid 400 dollars for this thing and I only feel a little ripped off these days) that definitely has its own email, when they didn't have much content you could send the kindle your old electronic content. I actually was converting palm pilot ebooks to kindle formats. You could load them with a usb at one point.

So, no, not really new, but they stopped advertising the function, finding the email address is the tricky part.

Log into the amazon account on a browser, go to accounts and lists, your content and devices, click Devices tab.

Identify your device, including any device you loaded the app on, click the ... button and the pop up has an individual email address that you can send stuff to. Something like [email protected] where 67 is something they added to make it distinct from other devices. Which doesn't matter much, because it will be available under the documents tab on all devices, but if you send it to a particular device it will auto send it over the whispernet I believe.

THEN you need to set the email addresses that can send the documents to the kindle, because otherwise you would be getting election voting instructions from the russians on your kindle, go to accounts and lists, your content and devices, click preferences, ignore anything but "personal Document Services" ( honestly, it is a rabbit hole. Whispercast groups, really? What is that? ) click "personal Document Services" , realize that this is where you should have gone in the first place because it shows ALL your emails, enable "Personal Document Archiving" because maybe that is why you can see them on all devices, and add the source email to "Approved Personal Document E-mail List"

whew.

Looks like they charge you for document delivery over a kindle 3g whispernet , but you can disable the delivery over 3g and set a maximum charge over 3g. My last whispernet charge was November 29, 2010, but maybe they feel bad for charging 400 bucks for a version 1 kindle, that thing was hot garbage.
Whispernet Delivery Over 3G (Fees Apply) Enabled
Maximum Charge Limit: $ 0.5

Ryan

5/10/2019 10:29:12 am

I would gladly pay for special addition hardcover copies especially if it means getting the next Cradle book early. Like most other people I would to be able to purchase all of the books in a similar format.

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 04:29:03 am

Yes, if Will ends up making hardcover books - the previous versions would also have them.

Metatron

5/10/2019 10:39:17 am

So kickstarters look like fun from the outside looking in but I assure you they are a lot of work. If all you're talking about is doing special editions of existing books it wouldn't be as much work. We're not talking about trying to do a board game or card came for example which would require bringing in a bunch of people to design and build it, work with manufacturers, testers, etc etc et all.

Ultimately I would back a kickstarter for a nice hardcover version of your books sure. Just remember not to let the project get out of hand with feature creep, add ons, etc etc. Maybe take a look at what Brandon Sanderson has done with his storefront and how he handles merch for his IP as an example. Hell you could try contacting him for advice. I've met him a couple of times and he's super nice. I'm sure he'd respond if you reached out to him.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:41:07 pm

If we do a Kickstarter at all, it's because we have the guidance of the Sullivans (who have done several Kickstarters and after whose campaign we would model mine) and we have a team who can shoulder the burden of the work so that I can keep writing.

I assure you, I'm going into this with eyes wide open. I won't bite off more than I can chew.

And if I do, then I just won't do it again. No harm, no foul.

Clint

5/10/2019 11:47:13 am

Definitely yes for kickstarter. Hell if you make a patreon I'd pay that too.

Kevin

5/14/2019 04:56:33 pm

I was thinking about Patreon. "Keep Will in the Cave" for three bucks a month.

Curious how much % $ You get to keep for Patreons. It seems like the method of last resort to get paid for things you might do for free.

Jaeger

5/10/2019 12:17:24 pm

If we are part of the Kickstarter would we get the book early? Or would we additionally need to buy the book? Are there multiple kickstarters for different things or will it all be under the same umbrella?

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 04:32:04 am

Generally speaking a Kickstarter has various "levels" and you choose which one you want to back based on what formats you are interested in. For instance:

- Just ebook
- Just paperback
- ebook + paperback (because some people want to keep their printed copy "pristine"
- Just hardcover
- ebook + hardcover

I've even had readers who buy (a) ebook (b) paperback and (c) hardcover because they want to keep their hardcover "pristine" (b) they loan the paperback to friends and (a) they want to read on their tablet.

Cool Person

5/12/2019 07:27:11 am

Yep, that's me.

Ryan

5/10/2019 12:43:38 pm

I have never participated in a kickstarter but would for Uncrowned. I already intend to pay for the book so a little extra for something special or unique seems like a no-brainer for me.

**End Game: Went opening night. It was badass. A few of my buddies organized an event in Houston and we had group of 120-130 people. Lot of fun.

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 04:33:06 am

If Will follows our model, he would price the ebook in the Kickstarter to be the same as the ebook in the retail chain, so there is no "little extra" that has to come from you.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:39:25 pm

You had a 100-person Endgame viewing!? That's insane! I did that once: for Green Lantern.

I was young. I did not see the signs.

Deadnettle

5/10/2019 12:46:06 pm

Hardcover books would be absolutely fantastic! I have been eagerly awaiting a release of hardcovers. Early access to books would be a nice bonus, but I'd have to see how that would be set up. If I could get early access to upcoming books in exchange for ordering hardcovers I would be beyond pleased.

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 04:35:05 am

If Will follows our model there are several levels including (a) ebook only and (b) print + ebook. So, you wouldn't HAVE to order the hardcover to get early access - you could choose the ebook level and in that case there would be only two differences (a) You get the book from Backer Kit rather than Amazon and (b) Will would earn a bit more while you pay exactly the same.

Deadnettle

5/12/2019 01:03:56 pm

Thank you very much for answering me! I actually really want a hardcover version of Will's books but I am extra happy that Will would receive additional funding. By going through some of your explanations here on the blog, it seems like kickstarter would be the next natural step Will can take to advance his writing career. As a side note, I'm also a huge fan of you and your husband's books.

Robin Sullivan

5/15/2019 07:52:05 am

@Deadnettle - You are very welcome. I'm glad to hear you have enjoyed Michael's writing as well.

Michael Kelley

5/10/2019 03:26:34 pm

If it works out for you then well and good. You do you and don't let my opinion influence you unduly. That being said I have never understood the appeal of special editions. What I like, and what I am willing to pay for, is the story. Digital, hardback, paperback, leather bound, box sets, artwork, none of that matters to me. It is the story that matters to me.

I just hope that whatever you decide to do doesn't distract you from the story.

I realize that this is what you do for a living so I hope whatever you do works out for you.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:37:55 pm

Tbh I don't collect special editions either, but a lot of people do. I get requests for hardcovers or special editions regularly.

If it turned out nobody's interested, though, then no problem! Wouldn't bother me.

Macross

5/10/2019 03:38:36 pm

Eh, I dunno. I wouldn't do it just for book 7, and these days I really only buy hardbacks if it's a first printing of a book I really enjoy or think will be valuable someday. Ebooks are just easier to carry around.

So, maybe? If it was book 1, and was really well constructed.

Can not Tell

5/10/2019 04:10:51 pm

I say go for it, but I don't like the idea of some people getting the book earlier than others.

Mike

5/10/2019 04:46:44 pm

@Robin Sullivan

Unrelated: I just realized who you are and..... I may have fainted for a few seconds.
I don’t use social media (reddit is the only exception) so you are the first person I have ever addressed with the @ sign.

I haven’t read too many comments but I’m not sure why anyone would be upset about buying an ebook directly from the author vs from a book store. The self publishing/sales method should be a natural progression for an author.
I believe amazon did a good thing providing independent authors with a platform that can help their careers. That doesn’t mean an author should be beholden to that model or the traditional publisher model. I won’t say what I really think of the major publishers but that seems to be a business model that has run its course.

The main reason I recommended early ebook, ebook, then hard copy is because if you look at Will’s fan base it was mostly grown organically via social media, word of mouth etc. maybe most importantly, frequency of publishing. I believe Will found a good publishing-speed/length of story ratio that keeps readers engaged and wanting more. Essentially asking them to wait so I can get my signed copy first seems..unfair (I hate that word). It won’t hurt my feelings to wait to get 1 of the extras verses asking others to wait so I can have my hard copy early.

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 04:49:31 am

Hey nice to meet you. In our case this is the way it worked.

(1) Release date was set for July 9th. All "production" work is planned based on that -- so we schedule the copy editors, narrators, and give the printers a "heads up" when they can expect files.

(2) On April 9th the book was pretty much done -- except for the last round of proofing by the gamma readers - the kickstarter people got the same version of the book as them.

(3) On April 25th, the gamma readers/proofing feedback was in and the book was "locked." Kickstarter people got a new version, which will match the ebook that is sold in retail. So, those who backed at the ebook level - are essentially "done."

(4) All the printing "pre-press work started" and completed on 5/10

(5) Books are going on press next week and be available to ship on 6/3.

(6) Michael will do signing of the printed books 6/5 and our fulfillment house will be shipping them. People will receive their hardcovers about 3 - 4 weeks before the July 7th date.

So, under this type of timeline no one is being asked to "wait so you can get your signed copy first." You DO get the book a bit early, (both ebook, and if you bought one print), but the release date is the release date.

Now, what I'm starting to understand after reading all these comments is Michael's model (which follows the traditional publishing model where a release date is set and then you work toward that release date) is different than Will's model which is write and hit publish asap. It's something I didn't fully process until I started reading the comments. This may mean that Will does not follow Michael's model, but I'm still convinced that a Kickstarter would be great for (a) Will (b) his fans and (c) be a way of taking Will's career up a notch (by having hardcovers in the mix).

Anyway, a lot to think about.

Mike link

5/12/2019 01:17:54 pm

Robyn,
On the selfish side I’d prefer for Will to write and publish as quickly as possible.

On an even more selfish side, I believe at some point soon Will will have to move to a more traditional publishing model. I’d like to be reading his (and yours/Michaels) for many years to come. At some point publishing more than one book per year is going to wear him out mentally and physically.

I think what all of us need to keep in mind is that the Royal Road type authors (2-5 chapters per week) don’t stick around all that long. I could point out 4-5 great stories on RR that stopped mid story or went on permanent hiatus.

Again, thank you for sharing this idea and business model with Will’s fan base. Hopefully this will start a transition that allows Will to continue making great money doing what he loves and being able to enjoy the benefits of his creativity/labor.

On a side note, I still vote that we lock authors like Michael and Will in their basement with an old fashioned word processor so there’s no distractions. Just sayin’.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:36:12 pm

@Mike

Yes, Robin is an interdimensional space wizard who descended from the stars. It is known.

As for the RR authors, many writers underestimate what it takes to write 2-5 chapters per week and burn themselves out or "run out of rail" so to speak when they realize that the story has gone beyond their control. And since they are writing in a serial format, they can't sit down and write themselves out of a corner.

I don't see that in my future for several reasons, BUT if it looked like I was headed that way, I have a team around me who would tackle me to the ground and bind my typing fingers in duct tape for my own safety.

Robin Sullivan

5/15/2019 08:02:16 am

Well, I'm not familiar with Royal Road authors, but I do know there are a lot of authors who write "Rapid Release" books and that's just not a model that fits well with Michael. Now, as I type this he has 4.5 books written that aren't out there. (Age of Legend hits the street July 7th - it's "in the can" meaning pre-order pages are up, the book is on the press, and when the clock chimes midnight it goes live on the retail chain), the last two books in the series are waiting on me to provide some additional structural editing feedback), and there is 1.5 books that I haven't read yet. My job is to make sure that Michael DOESN'T get distracted, but he also can only write for only a certain amount of time each day (3 - 5 hours) because past that the writing quality goes down and he'd just have to re-write it later. We get the books out as fast as we can, but we also want to make sure that they are as good as they can be and that means a lot of "post writing" work and feedback from others: beta readers, gamma readers, copy editors, proof readers, etc. But I'll keep running interference so he CAN write, and we'll keep the books coming as soon as possible! No one (especially not me because I love his books so much) want Michael to "burn out" - so if that means waiting a bit - I'm good with that ;-)

qaz

5/10/2019 05:28:32 pm

I'd be interested in backing a kickstarting for a physical copy of you books

Mike

5/10/2019 07:43:29 pm

Robin, I’d just like to add that I think what you are doing is amazing. It’s great to see the entrepreneurial side of creative ppl. I’ve been around a long time and it’s always felt like (I have no idea if this is true or not) that the creators (writers) succeeded or failed by what the publishing companies wanted, not what was best for the writers.

I love the idea of a kickstarter and I also like the Patreon format used by RR. however, my wife gets irritated when I have 4,5,6 Patreon charges and I can’t remember which authors I’m supporting.

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 04:57:48 am

Thanks Mike! So, I definitely have the "entrepreneurial bug." I'm a huge fan of Shark Tank, Kickstarters, Patreon, and the Profit. I'm also appalled that writers (who CREATE the stories we love) get "short shifted" by the "publishing mill." Basically EVERYONE in the publishing chain is making more than the author, and (IMHO) that's just not right!

One of the things I try to do is educate authors on techniques that have worked for Michael and me that (a) limit the number of people between the author and the reader and (b) allows the author to keep a higher % of the reader's money. We've found Kickstarters do exactly that, and I think Will's would be HUGELY successful - I think he'd blow mine out of the water (which is pretty tough as we are the 3rd most-backed and 5th most-funded fiction Kickstarters, but nothing would make me happier as that means another author is finding a way to earn well from their hard work.

We are still at the early stages, but I'm learning a lot from the posts here. We'll keep refining. What we don't want to do is "piss off" Will's fans, and to be honest, that was a reaction I didn't see coming, as we've had the EXACT OPPOSITE reaction from our own Kickstarters...but as I'm learning Michael's model is different from Will's.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:32:22 pm

Correct: Robin is the best.

I'm still eyeing Patreon. I want something that will be rewarding for fans without feeling like I'm rejecting non-patron fans AND that doesn't require me to spend a ton of time writing extra content. Time that I could be spending writing the book.

I feel like there's a solution out there, though.

Superdragonboyangel

5/24/2019 09:32:43 am

Bit late to the party but if you go down the patreon road i would happily add you to my list of authors to support! I think even some of Abidan Archive information or artwork / inspiration/ notes on the writing process would be worth supporting

hopnance2

5/10/2019 08:42:24 pm

Cue Palpatine saying "Do it"

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:50:33 pm

https://youtu.be/XU_9ucFfhdI?t=33

Pat

5/10/2019 10:48:22 pm

I am not interested in anything that delays the release of the books. Part of the fun of following the Cradle story is seeing quick releases There will be longer times between releases if you have to wait for the book to be printed, signed and mailed. Waiting for you to sign 1.000 books before I get to read the story is not appealing to me. Early releases to one group would also mess with the Reddit fan base who like to analyze every period and comma in the story.
A signed first edition of a book would be of interest though. Though every second you spend signing books is seconds you are not writing, soooo

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 05:00:54 am

Just to be clear. ebooks go out when they are done - so there is no waiting for the "signing of the 1,000 books). For people who only buy the ebook - their timeline isn't affected. For people who buy the printed book as well, they will get that when it is done, so it's possible to get the digital reward before the physical reward.

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:47:27 pm

Will probably only spends a certain amount of his day writing - more than other authors, yes, but still he has other time, which he could use to sign.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:30:42 pm

A signed limited-edition or first-edition paperback is definitely on the table here, should we go this route. And since THE TEAM will be shouldering the main time burden, it shouldn't delay my writing much at all.

Also, one of my 108 Secret Skills is the ability to sign books with my mind.

Cool Person

5/15/2019 09:02:33 pm

I'm guessing the reason Secret Skills has 2 capitalized letters is so you can refer to them as SS and have people think you have your won secret service?

Cool Person

5/15/2019 09:03:56 pm

own. not won.

Noobmaster69

5/10/2019 11:42:25 pm

Kickstarter - yes.
Earlier Uncrowned - hell yes.
Endgame - Damned near perfect movie except for that Thor guy. What a dick.

Cool Person

5/12/2019 10:47:25 am

Some would argue that thor being a dick makes the movie more realistic, and hence, better.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:29:01 pm

Noobmaster69, do you get nervous whenever you hear thunder now?

Noobmaster69

5/17/2019 04:46:28 am

Nonsense. My parent’s basement is well insulated and my gaming rig has multiple battery backups.

Dustin

5/10/2019 11:59:57 pm

I don't think a kickstarter would be a bad idea. Would it really be much more work than you were already intending to put in to write the book anyway? And at worst it fails

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:44:55 pm

Will link

5/14/2019 03:28:33 pm

The theory is that it won't be significantly more work for ME, just for my team. And if the KS fails, oh well, no one gets charged and we all learn a life lesson about friendship and the meaning of Christmas.

manty05

5/11/2019 12:21:38 am

As I buy practically all books electronic nowdays a kickstarter with a physical book would not be of much interest to me.
On another note Will have you considered releasing deleted scenes from your books or notes that had to scraped and you are not planing to use in the future. Like the refining explanation scene or description of the original 9-layered Ghostwater. Or just some worldbuilding text.

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:44:36 pm

I hadn't though of that, but that does sound fun. for me. not will.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:26:41 pm

@manty05

I do consider that, but I often brush it aside quickly, because of the work I imagine it will take to clean it all up and make it presentable.

However, now your comment has made me reconsider again, because your example of the nine-layered Ghostwater was a good one. I have all that material in a text file, I'm not going to use it in the future so I won't be spoiling anything, and it would make a great blog post.

Hmmmm...

Andy Adams

5/11/2019 07:35:38 am

I would definitely fund a set of signed hardcovers! Not sure how you would roll them out--in some single release order or all at once--but I would "need" a full set. Like many other responses, there would be a gaping hole in my shelf without all the hardcovers in matching format.

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 05:05:47 am

Yes, the idea would be that earlier versions would be in hardcovers as well.

Nate B.

5/11/2019 08:22:51 am

I think a kickstarter would be great. I'm all for the author getting a greater share of the profit, and extra stuff like signed copies, early access, etc. is always a nice reward.

Sadly, I found the Sullivan's kickstarter for their latest release too late, but I thought what they did was awesome. And I think it's great to see two of my favorite authors working together in this way!

At the end of the day, whether there's a kickstarter or not, I think we're all looking forward to Uncrowned!

Robin Sullivan

5/12/2019 05:09:16 am

Thanks Nate! Usually when we do Kickstarters, we also have a "pre-order page" so people who missed the Kickstarter can pre-order directly from us. That didn't happen this time due to Michael's mom recent passing, which has completely upended many things I'd normally do. But I'm still trying to get that in place, so you still may be able to get your stuff early if I can get my act in gear. Stay tuned to Michael's blog (www.riyria.blogspot.com) for that to launch.

As far as working with Will, I'm glad to do what I can to take some of the knowledge I've learned over the last 15 years and help fellow authors find ways to earn well from their stories. We'll keep trodding on!

Micah Brown

5/12/2019 02:17:48 am

Would kickstart for nice cover art. But, like some others I'm not super pumped about an earlier release if it delays it for others.

PDK

5/12/2019 03:16:29 am

I'd be interested. Something around full series (fancy?) hardcover stuff would be awesome.

Ross

5/12/2019 03:24:34 am

Hi Will, really enjoy all your books and wait with great anticipation for each new release. One of the things I really enjoyed recently was all the fan banter leading up to the Underlord release and then all the comments post the release within a matter of hours .. it creates a great sense of community. Would be concerned that an early release would erode this community and, as mentioned elsewhere in the blog, potentially segmenting the community into haves and have not. No issue with kickstarter and hardcovers etc, just the early release component of it. Been on this journey with you since House of Blades and looking forward to supporting you for many years into the future whatever you decide re: kickstarter ... you do awesome stuff that always makes me smile.

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:43:19 pm

I don't think a kickstarter would destroy the community because all the people in the community would know about and buy the kickstarter, and have fan banter about that.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:24:40 pm

Thanks for sticking with me, Rose!

The number one thing that made me lean toward Kickstarter was the Sullivans' experience that an early release Kickstarter actually INCREASES audience participation surrounding a launch rather than decreasing it (which is what I also expected).

However, I'm always a fan of trying new things and then adjusting based on what works and what doesn't. So if we do this, and it makes the launch experience worse, then we won't be doing it again.

Phantom Thieves

5/12/2019 07:44:03 am

Would be happy to support a kick starter, it sounds like a great way to do a special edition or get a unique bonus to fans!

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:41:43 pm

‍

Enigma

5/12/2019 07:48:43 am

I wouldn't really be down for kickstarting a book myself. For two reasons, the first being that from what Robin is saying it sounds like dealing with the print stuff takes what would normally be a 6 month writing process for our boi Will and turn it into something like 9-12 months, with the early release being early relative only to the physical copies. I like fast releases more than physical books. but maybe I misunderstood her points, I dunno.

But that's not the real reason I don't like it. The ACTUAL reason is because you've been colluding with Micheal Sullivan. He is a very mean man who kills off great characters and ruins beautiful ships (RIP Raithe x Persephone). I will NEVER not be bitter about that.

That being said, I would be 100% down for kickstarting other things. Omnibus editions of the other 6 cradle books, the travelers gate series, or better yet World Building stuff. I think it would be super cool to do a kickstarter for you to make physical path manuals or something. NONONO wait, Will, Maps. How much money would we have to give you for you to make a map of the world of Cradle so that we could complain endlessly on Reddit about how unrealistic the Geography was. What's the bottom line?

PumpkinVision

5/12/2019 05:42:36 pm

I like this idea. I know that Will has said he doesn't want to do a map because there'll be nitpicking. But surely there's some amount of kickstarter love to balance the subsequent nitpicking!

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:41:10 pm

I think that there would be more than enough kickstarter love. if there isn't, I'll kill the nitpickers. either that, or enslave them to work for will so that he can publish faster. probably the latter.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:22:51 pm

I'm sorry, you had a very well-reasoned and well-articulated point, but then you said the "M" word and now I automatically have to vote against you. I wish this weren't the case, but I don't make the rules.*

*(Oh wait, nvm, yes I do.)

Enigma

5/14/2019 03:34:32 pm

Dang. I knew I shouldn't have mentioned the path manuals.

Robin Sullivan

5/15/2019 08:22:55 am

@ Enigma - if you think Michael is a "mean man" - you should try living with the brute!! Something to remember is when it comes to delivering things for the Kickstarter we don't "hold onto" one format while we are waiting for the other formats. So, when the ebook is done - it's sent out. Now, the print book takes a bit longer (because it has to be printed and shipped), and when it's done it goes out. But that said, people are still reading the "story" as soon as it is "locked down" - but they are doing so in ebook form.

In other words. For the Age of Legend Kickstarter, backer received the ebook on April 9th, and we'll be shipping the print book June 9th, but once the book is "finished" they have the ability to ready it. They don't have to wait until after the print book comes off the press.

Taylor

5/12/2019 10:49:13 am

Yes, a full set of signed leather-bound hardcovers sounds absolutely delicous.

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:39:40 pm

The crucnh of the pages... th snapping of the spine... mmm.

Cool Person

5/12/2019 10:51:26 am

I saw this post about a few hours after it was posted. it had 22 comment. 1 day later, it had over 130. now, it has 178. this may become the most commented post yet, beating
'A Rare Moment of Personal Expression' with 229 comments.

Cool Person

5/12/2019 10:55:49 am

Also, Robin, you seem to comment on everything related to publishing/kickstarting. I counted, you have commented 44 different times, which makes up 27% of the total comments. wow.

Cool Person

5/12/2019 10:59:04 am

will,
the reverse of 'I don't need funds to write a book' would be
'koob a etirw ot sdnuf t'nod I'

Cool Person

5/12/2019 09:00:13 pm

wait, sorry, it would be 'koob a etirw ot sdnuf deen t'nod I'. I forgot the need/deen.

Dan Davies

5/12/2019 01:39:13 pm

YEEEEEEEES. I'd like the opportunity to demonstrate greater support for you other than buying multiple copies of your books.

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:38:40 pm

‏`

Motti

5/12/2019 01:56:13 pm

When would uncrowned be released if it is done through Kickstarter

Will link

5/14/2019 03:21:22 pm

I have no idea at this point when it's coming out, whether the Kickstarter gets off the ground or not. I haven't written it yet!

moe gann

5/12/2019 04:07:00 pm

I love it especially the limited hardcover. you could set stretch goals or higher reward tiers of digital and/or physical art from your books

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:37:56 pm

‏

Will link

5/14/2019 03:20:39 pm

Cool Person, you've got to stop commenting with nothing or just a punctuation mark in order to inflate the comment count. It makes it harder for me to scan through and respond.

@moe I think commissioning art is a great idea! I have it in mind as a potential stretch goal.

Jukssuger

5/12/2019 05:36:29 pm

I completely, 100% agree with this idea. In other, completely unrelated, news. I have been texting with my brother so much about these books that when I was ordering my mom Lindor chocolates for Mother's Day my auto-correct kept changing "Lindor" to "Lindon". That is all.

Cool Person

5/12/2019 09:01:07 pm

You should be proud of yourself.

Will link

5/14/2019 03:19:02 pm

That means you have truly arrived.

Cool Person

5/12/2019 09:18:05 pm

did a quick count... I see APPROXIMATELY 90 votes for, give or take some, I'm sure I mis-counted a bit, plus there were some I counted others wouldn't, and some I didn't count that others would. 90 votes. I didn't have time to count, because there's so few of them, but I think theres about 10 votes against. simply put, the majority of the poeple want you to do a kickstarter.

Alex

5/13/2019 07:36:34 am

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!
(please)

Bill Redflame

5/13/2019 09:01:38 am

I'd love a kickstarter for a Will InPrint Special Book. Given I reread Cradle the most then probably Cradle verse. I understand Kickstarter is for new stuff so it would be new releases such as Uncrowned, but I'd really like a secondary purchase option of a Special Edition Collection of the earlier cradle books into a single, added art, nice-cover, smells like rose aura, type of book. Please consider.

Though I also hear the people complaining about print... i.e., Brent Weeks is fully complete with his last novel here in May (per his tweet), but it won't be on sale until late October. URG. How long does it take to recycle the tree matter and spray the octopus ink on them?

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:37:34 pm

stop complaining and be glad that we've stopp using squid ink. it could take centuries for that ink to dry!

Robin Sullivan

5/15/2019 08:27:26 am

It's not the printing....although sometimes that can take a long time as well. I've seen times when printers were backed up by 5 - 6 months. It has to do with the "retail distribution system." Publishers put out "catalogs" of their next season's releases (Spring-Summer or Fall-Winter) 4 - 6 months before that season, and then the sales people start working on the corporate book buyers to do their pre-orders. It's a much different "system" when you are traditionally published - so it's more about "generating pre-sale" orders than it is the physical printing of the books. Although sometimes it's both ;-)

Azqa

5/13/2019 09:05:39 am

I'd be happy to be a Kickstarter backer to get Will a better margin on my sale. I'd do it for the ebook-only version because one of the main reasons I bought a Kindle in the first place was to stop adding bookshelves to my house, but I also think that KS is a fantastic way for people who DO want additional forms of the output to get it.

Finally saw Endgame last night. Wow. Just...wow.

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:36:11 pm

‏‏‏‏

Walter

5/13/2019 09:51:25 am

Early Uncrowned? Shut up and take my money!

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:33:28 pm

Lazy

5/13/2019 09:59:06 am

Would be great if you could also include some artist's interpretation of the characters or locations across cradle as Will imagined them. Haven't seen a lot of fanart out there (or maybe i've just haven't searched hard enough)

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:33:14 pm

no, I haven't seen much either.

Path of Killers and Kings

5/13/2019 10:16:56 am

Hi Will

A Kickstarter sounds good. I'd pay for your Deathmatch and other short stories as an ebook. Of course, new content would be fantastic.
Have you considered using Patreon as a way to bring in additional income?

Looking forward to Uncrowned !

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:32:20 pm

Yes, please! Go, Patreon!

Ash

5/13/2019 11:04:20 am

kickstarter, I choose you!

Chris

5/13/2019 01:35:42 pm

I personally would enjoy a signed first edition of crowned, but... I suspect you would get very tired of signing them all.

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:31:46 pm

well, he wouldn't do them all at once. if he splits up the books he needs to sign, it becomes easily doable. if that is too much... well, theres always the whip.

Enukins

5/13/2019 03:48:50 pm

I live above the Arctic Circle. The Wildlings I have to teach all day would likely steal my limited edition book, as they do all things worth value. Only the hope of Uncrowned on my kindle keeps me warm in my igloo all night.

Joe

5/13/2019 04:29:36 pm

what walter said

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:30:33 pm

I personally think this post has nowhere near enough comments. thankfully, that is fixable.

Cool Person

5/13/2019 04:54:29 pm

223 comments! with this one, we only need 6 more to make a record! the only problem is, I've commented so many times in the last 10 minutes that it makes me spend 2 minutes answering questions about store fronts, chimneys, crosswalks, and traffic lights just to post my comment. I'll probably get one this time. woe is me.

Elliot

5/13/2019 07:52:54 pm

I would love a hardcover copy of the book. My vote is yes. However the best part for me is that Will gets most of the money. If that means he can write faster or take more time to work on the series than its worth it for me. I would definitely like to get a copy early too.

Jason

5/13/2019 08:16:05 pm

I would love a hardcover of the book. Would definitely do a kickstarter for it.

Cool Person

5/13/2019 08:59:56 pm

Yes! 230 comments! this is a new record:)!):(/:9;)

Scott Pike

5/13/2019 10:37:02 pm

I would like a kickstarter if we could get a special version of a book with artwork of characters or scenes as part of the book, like Broms Krampus.

Maahn

5/14/2019 03:03:41 am

Lots of comments already, but I'll chime in with my thoughts. As I already own everything you've released digitally at least, then it's already a done deal for me backing a kickstarter campaign if you start one up, regardless of what the rewards are.

Obviously there should actually be some rewards though. I like the idea of a signed hardcover, but if you do that for Uncrowned then at some point you have to go back and do the same for the rest of the previous books. The completionist in me will go mad if I don't have a full set. Alternate covers would be cool too. Early access to a book would be cool because hey, we get the book sooner than expected, but early access seems like it could cause frustrations among those who can't back a kickstarter. That seems like more potential hassle than one release date.

Coldsteel

5/14/2019 11:55:24 am

I don't at all like anything that means a delay getting the book for those who do not pay via a Kickstarter. Anything else is fine though.

Railalis

5/14/2019 02:05:47 pm

I think a really cool idea for kickstartered rewards would be different cover art. Let's say you liked character X, maybe that's a thing you can pick? Regardless I'd be interested in seeing what you had in mind.

Stephen

5/14/2019 06:43:07 pm

Hey there Will i thought i would throw my 2 cents in here as well.
i am all for you doing a Kickstarter if you think it would help and give you what you a chance to do neat little things or ect.
The only thing i would suggest though i am sure you already aware of this be very careful what you promise as add on's if anything or even what you promise for product/ect ect.
I say this only out of love because i have seen somethings i really like fail to deliver and it really sour's people (even me i been burned by this once or twice) more then anything else.

None the less i hope it is successful for you if i have the extra money i know i'd back it. SO good luck!

Fellow Daoist Ji Ning

5/14/2019 07:59:03 pm

I'd love to have a full set of hard covers for the whole series.

Question: I know you have to be Amazon Exclusive to be on Kindle Unlimited. Will a release outside of Amazon effect Kindle Unlimited availability?

Cool Person

5/14/2019 09:40:01 pm

No, it shouldn't. Granted, I know nothing about this stuff, so I could be wrong, but I don't see any reason why it shouln't.

Robin Sullivan

5/15/2019 08:31:32 am

No, it won't affect Kindle Unlimited because the Kickstarter happens many moons before the book is even on Amazon. For instance, we did the Age of Legend Kickstarter in March for a July release.

Southstrider

5/14/2019 09:42:51 pm

I have successfully captured fresh hosts for you Will. Do not worry, I bred them myself. One is a platypus, the other is a black sea slug. Choose wisely, you only have so much time.

Miriam

5/14/2019 09:44:55 pm

If you did an early release ebook via Kickstarter, I would be really torn on whether to get it, and I’ve bought every Cradle book the day it was released. The reason is because I tend to read ebooks on many different platforms: my Kindle at home, my phone when traveling, my computer when I’m trying to be sneaky at work. When you buy books directly from Amazon they sync between devices; when you get ebook files another way they don’t. I know from personal experience that this ends up being a serious inconvenience for me, and I’ve stopped buying ebooks from kickstarter and similar because of it. You’re one of my favorite authors so I would consider breaking this rule to make sure I got to read the book and participate in online discussions, but I just wanted to make sure you were aware of some of the reasons fans might be unhappy with getting the ebook from kickstarter even if it’s the same price. It’s also like how fans want their physical copies of the book to match, it would just be weird to have the other books as normal Amazon books and then have the new one be a file I constantly have to babysit and transfer between devices instead of having it just naturally show up in my account. That being said I’m just one person and I’m sure most don’t share my concerns, and I intend to keep supporting you regardless, I’m just not at all a fan of using kickstarter for ebooks.

Southstrider

5/14/2019 09:56:01 pm

All organic, with no ill effects to the environment.

Southstrider

5/14/2019 09:58:55 pm

Also, I fully agree with a kickstarter. Miriam, that's a valid point, and I'm sure others share it, but really, this is a Tyranny, not a Democracy. Me as Tyrant as of now.

Kura Alice

5/14/2019 10:05:15 pm

Southstrider, I hope to see you in the Uncrowned Tournament. But really, you cannot stand against my puny vassal states, Ei HI Indon and Kura Ercy.
-Kura Alice

Southstrider

5/14/2019 10:07:19 pm

You underestimate my power, Kura Alice. Ercy and Indon are nothing compared to my Nderlords. All of them turning 35 the day after the Uncrowned finishes of course.

Kura Alice

5/14/2019 10:08:58 pm

Ha! Your disciples may as well be from Acred Alley. Even my Owgolds could stand against them.

Uriel

5/14/2019 10:11:10 pm

Shut up, puny mortals. You can not stand against Uriel, one of the great Bidan! Mwahahaha

Ool Erson

5/15/2019 02:52:27 pm

I am Ercy Ackson, and I have stood against many Ods more powerful than your Bidan! Uriel cannot compare to Ades, Yperion, Rios, Oios, or Ob. in fact, any of the Itans would best your Bidan. you Ools.

Ali A.