Deathmatch Part I: The Death-ing Begins

12/19/2016

I'm still working on Blackflame (obviously, because what else would I be doing with my time?), but there's been a recurring notion in the comments for some time now that I'm setting up for a gladiator-style death match among all my characters.

I'm not saying I am doing that, and I'm not saying I'm not, but it suggests to me a fun little game we could play in the comments below this blog.

You propose a matchup between two of my characters, or one of my characters and a character from a totally different work, and tell me how you think it would end up. You can use as much or as little detail as you want to. Example: "Simon versus Superman: I know Superman would throw him into the sun, but how long do you think he could run before Superman caught him and threw him into the sun? I say an eighth of a second, but what do you think?"

I will respond to these comments, as can anyone else who wants to. For instance, in this case, I might say "I think Simon would last negative three days. As soon as the match began, Superman would fly around the earth and reverse time, picking an unaware Simon up three days before the match began and throwing him into the sun."

Other, more fair matchups might be more interesting.

This won't lead anywhere, and I'm not going to do anything with this, but it seems like a fun thing to do over the days leading up to Christmas. Also, it's a good way for you to squeeze out hints about how strong I think certain characters are, like the Emperor. Or Eithan. Or even the emperor of the Blackflame Empire, who has yet to be introduced.

Pro tip: Suriel versus any mortal is going to result in that mortal being banished out of space and time. My only response will be "Suriel banishes them out of space and time."

So...fights to the death. Go!

-Will

360 Comments

Peter

12/19/2016 02:33:12 pm

Wait a sec, could Suriel banish the Doctor out of Space and Time?

Will link

12/19/2016 02:39:29 pm

Out of her space and her timeline, sure.

Simom

12/20/2016 08:00:36 am

Im starting to realize you cant kill Suriel. Anything you throw at her she can banish it. I guess Suriel is too strong. I wonder whst Path she follows.................

Will link

12/20/2016 09:30:19 am

Well, she's immortal.

That said, there are entities that threaten her and the rest of the Abidan, but at that point you're dealing with specific power interactions. She draws her power from the Way, the force of pure order that keeps time, space, and reality in the universe on track. There are beings that draw from pure chaos, disrupting that order. There are also entities that could cut off her access to the Way, or out-predict and maneuver her into a situation where she could be destroyed.

...but all that comes in later books.

Power Level Update

12/20/2016 09:30:44 am

Okay guys these are the stronges characters
1. Abidan Court
2. Great Elders before they were sealed
3.Strongest Cradle characters, including Li Markuth (not really Cradle universe), Ninecloud Court Princess, NorthStrider, Eithan, Yerins master
4 .Sealed Great Elders and Emperor tie
5. Urzia, Meia and other enhanced warroirs
6. Ragnurus Incarnation
7. Valinhall

Will link

12/20/2016 09:50:55 am

That's just about right!

#3 is a broad variety of characters over several different power levels--the Ninecloud Court princess and Northstrider are a level beyond Li Markuth and the Sword Sage, who are both a level beyond Underlord. Some of those would defeat the Emperor and the sealed Great Elders easily, some would have a hard time, and some of them couldn't do it.

Also #5-7 are all very close. Valinhall can compete with the Champions, but they would be difficult fights. And while the Ragnarus Incarnation is the strongest Incarnation thus far, and thus a notch above Valinhall/the Champions, in the end (City of Light SPOILER ALERT, I guess) a Valinhall Traveler DID beat him.

But I'd still put him a notch above them in terms of pure power level.

POWER LEVEL UPDATE 2

12/21/2016 05:38:49 pm

1. Abidan Court (Linley Baruach level from Wuxia)
2.Unsealed Greater Elders(Beerus/Whis level)
3. Northstrider in terms of strength. Madra power would go to Nincloud Princess and 8 Empire folk. Could take sealed Elders, maybe not unsealed (Super Sayian God level)
4. Unsealed Elders, EE Emperor, BF Emperor....Eithan?? (Naruto, Luffy, Ichigo are around EE Emperor. Would lose to Eithan, BF Emperor, and Unsealed Elders) (Goku would be able to hande phyical Elders but not metaphysical. Whis could)
5. Li Markuth and Sword Sage (Below Goku level)
7.Champions in terms of endurance. Valinhall could compete but risk running out of powers
8. Ragnarus Incarnation in terms of pure power. Weakened by Elysian White Light.
9. Valinhall with White Light and Mask. Nye Esscence too. Valinhall Incarnation around here
10. Valinhall with Nye esscence are around regular Incarnation level, maybe slightly below
11. Valinhall with no Nye esscence.
12. Elysia in terms of combat
13. Ragnurus in terms of dangerous weapons and pure power

Power Level Update 3 (Number 3 changed)

12/21/2016 05:51:01 pm

1. Abidan Court (Linley Baruach level from Wuxia)
2.Unsealed Greater Elders(Beerus/Whis level)
3. Dread Gods (Cradle strongest characters could save Sacred Valley but can not kill Dreadgods. Thanks Will for the info)
4.Northstrider in terms of strength. Madra power would go to Nincloud Princess and 8 Empire folk. Could take sealed Elders, maybe not unsealed (Super Sayian God level)
5. Unsealed Elders, EE Emperor, BF Emperor....Eithan?? (Naruto, Luffy, Ichigo are around EE Emperor. Would lose to Eithan, BF Emperor, and Unsealed Elders) (Goku would be able to hande phyical Elders but not metaphysical. Whis could)
6. Li Markuth and Sword Sage (Below Goku level)
7.Champions in terms of endurance. Valinhall could compete but risk running out of powers
8. Ragnarus Incarnation in terms of pure power. Weakened by Elysian White Light.
9. Valinhall with White Light and Mask. Nye Esscence too. Valinhall Incarnation around here
10. Valinhall with Nye esscence are around regular Incarnation level, maybe slightly below
11. Valinhall with no Nye esscence.
12. Elysia in terms of combat
13. Ragnurus in terms of dangerous weapons and pure power

Huh...guess I missed number 6 in second update. Oh well, made it easier for update 3.

Chris

12/19/2016 02:46:52 pm

Gotta go with Simon (with the mask of course) vs the flash golden era. Nye essence vs speed force. My favorite from your work vs my favorite from DC.

Will link

12/19/2016 03:06:10 pm

You know, I'm not a big DC buff, but my understanding of the Flash drawing on the Speed Force is that he's basically as fast as he needs to be.

At first, Simon is going to be able to keep up and fight back by drawing deeply on the Nye essence, but he'll never be able to land that one good hit that would kill the Flash. At the same time, the Flash's punches won't do much against someone drawing on the steel.

But at a certain point, the Flash is going to get so fast that Simon won't be able to do anything. At that point, the Flash will vibrate his hand through Simon's heart.

Ilya

12/19/2016 03:04:15 pm

What about Kelarac vs. Suriel? Or any of the Great Elders vs. Suriel?

Will link

12/19/2016 03:24:58 pm

In a complicated and protracted battle fought on many levels simultaneously, Suriel eventually gets the upper hand. She knows that banishing the Elder will only delay the problem, so she seals the Elder's power and banishes it to a lesser world. A world with special characteristics that will keep the Elder sealed for as long as possible.

Ilya

12/19/2016 03:26:05 pm

I should have expected that. If the humans can kinda do it, why can't Suriel.

Will link

12/19/2016 03:36:42 pm

Suriel did it already. It's how the Great Elders came to be sealed in that world in the first place.

And the versions the Emperor and Estyr Six dealt with were pale shadows of the entities Suriel would be dealing with. When they're inside an Iteration, they're bound by its rules to some degree. Not so outside.

Mike C

12/19/2016 03:52:10 pm

Mind officially blown.

Ilya

12/19/2016 03:52:46 pm

So everything is in the same universe. And my mind broke. So the match up that I just made up actually happened? That should be a story.

Will link

12/19/2016 04:09:03 pm

I wish I could embed images. I can't, so instead copy-and-paste this link for my reply:

https://41.media.tumblr.com/98770b87fbf6bef105adadec1468c825/tumblr_nn33n7eEfk1r9adcao2_500.jpg

Ilya

12/19/2016 04:37:56 pm

And now I am hyped for a future book.

April

12/19/2016 11:35:36 pm

See, this is why we need to quit delaying the return to EE. I want to know these things.

Will link

12/20/2016 09:53:54 am

The Aurelian Emperor ruled Iteration 112: Asylum.

Kobin Bingham

12/20/2016 03:36:45 pm

I've actually had a theory for a while now that they were all related. If I remember correctly, Suriel comments that when a world falls apart, corrupted pieces of it can end up infecting other worlds, and someone in the EE books mentioned that the Elders were like twisted things from another world, and the other dimensions in the Travelers Gate books always felt like different bits of a broken world floating around in the void...

Kaden

12/20/2016 04:27:06 pm

That makes sense Kobin!
It would explain why EE and TG have different magic systems than Cradle. Its become changed from the original somewhat

Mick

12/19/2016 03:18:10 pm

Apprentice Match up: Simon vs Kylar Stern (Brent Weeks, Night Angel)

Master Match up: Kai vs Durzo Blint (Same series as above)

Doubles: Lindon and Yerin vs Atticus and Granuaile (Iron Druid Series)

Queen/Ruler Match up: Leah vs Egwene al'Vere (Wheel of Time)

Will link

12/19/2016 03:34:29 pm

1.) Apprentices

This may be egotistical of me, but I give Simon the edge in this contest. He has strength greater than Kylar has ever displayed, and the magic-eating properties of the black ka'kari will be of no use against Valinhall, while Kylar's own unformed magic won't slow Simon down.

I say Simon cuts his head off without having to put on the mask.

2.) Masters

The tricky part here is that the full extent of Durzo's power is never revealed. I would imagine he has the edge, by virtue of centuries more experience. Even if he can't kill Kai immediately, he could almost certainly withdraw and gather enough information for a more lethal second attempt.

That said, since he's passed on the black ka'kari to Kylar, his abilities are more limited. Plus he's lost his immortality and his accelerated healing.

Too close to call. I think it might come down to luck, unless Durzo has learned some secret magical skills over the course of his endless journeys.

3.) Doubles

I'm afraid I don't know enough about the Iron Druid series to answer this. I've only read the first two books, and I don't remember who Granuaile is. Isn't she his apprentice or something?

4.) Queens

The hard part about this matchup is the incompatibility of the two magic systems. Leah can't block/shield anyone from the Source, because she's not a channeler, and she can't sense, slash, or counter weaves. In the same vein, though, Egwene can't sense Leah's presence or power, and can't counter any of her powers.

Barring balefire, I'll give it to Leah. Her eye is more likely to be able to detect Egwene's magic than Egwene is to be able to sense Leah's abilities, and Leah has access to enough weapons in Ragnarus that her first strike on an unaware target will be enough.

But if Egwene decides the situation is grave enough for balefire and gets the chance to use it, there's really nothing Leah can do but be burned out of existence.

Mick

12/19/2016 03:56:24 pm

I need to think of a closer Queens/Rulers match up then.

On the doubles, Granuaile is Attics apprentice and then becomes a full druid in her own right later down the track (also lover and partner). I picked the pair as you have one experienced sword wielding magic user + one still learning the ropes.

Will link

12/19/2016 04:07:20 pm

Yeah, that makes sense.

In theory, it's a good matchup, as Atticus with his sword and Yerin with her sword have pretty similar powers. If Lindon's Empty Palm works on Granuaile, then maybe they could take it.

Otherwise, I think Lindon is too inexperienced to be an asset, and Atticus is experienced enough to recognize that and take advantage of it.

Mick

12/19/2016 04:17:44 pm

Not quite Queens but what about Leah vs Polgara (she is at least a Duchess) (David Eddings). I still think this one leans Leah's way.

Leah is hard one to match up against a female equivalent. I'll keep searching.

Will link

12/19/2016 04:20:27 pm

This one, I think, depends on what information the characters have beforehand.

Because if Leah knows that Polgara's power requires words to activate, she'll act with overwhelming force and destroy Polgara before the sorceress can speak a word.

If she doesn't know that, Polgara is going to make her heart stop beating with a word.

Avinash

12/21/2016 11:08:50 am

Aha
But you see

The devourer (aka black kajari) does not only devours magic but anything u throw at it specially normal weapons
And it can stop special weapons too up to a limit
Combine it with the fact that it redirects kylar any number of time . . . .
Sorry but as much as I like simon the black kakari will wipe the floor with him.

Will link

12/22/2016 08:59:44 pm

The black ka'kari devours normal weapons, sure. But it couldn't devour one of the Dragon's Fangs, which is what Simon is using.

So Simon is stronger, he's faster, and the best the black ka'kari can do is slow his sword down. He's better able to defend himself from Kylar than Kylar is from him.

And assuming you meant "resurrect" rather than "redirect," the black ka'kari doesn't do it instantly. It usually takes days, PLUS it has to kill someone Kylar cares about, which presumably Kylar would forfeit or toss aside the black ka'kari to avoid (if he were being repeatedly murdered).

In this case, we're assuming a match to the death, so if Kylar dies he loses.

However, let's say that doesn't count--that Simon has to kill him until he stays dead.

Well, in the hours or days between resurrections, Simon's powers are going to be restored, his wounds will be healed, and he will probably have gotten a nice sleep in Valinhall. Rinse and repeat.

If anything, he just has to go out and kill Kylar every few days until eventually Kylar surrenders or gives up the ka'kari, by which time all of his friends and family have been killed.

Diego link

4/2/2017 03:25:37 pm

I never liked the Wheel of Times magic system. I feel the author just used magic as an excuse for some crazy things. There was no progression of power/skill and major characters were discovering new things on a need to use basis which kinna ruined it for me. Don't misunderstand I liked the books, but the magic system could have used some more work.

Will link

4/2/2017 04:59:56 pm

You know, Diego, I think PARTS of the WoT magic system were pretty...lacking. When characters pull never-before-seen solutions out of thin air.

However, parts of it were brilliant. The stilling/gentling, blocking someone from the Source, tying off a weave versus holding it, sensing and slashing weaves...there was a strategic component to it that I think most magic systems don't take advantage of.

Finn

4/2/2017 05:34:07 pm

I'm not sure if I reply to your comments from earlier here, but the magic system you were talking about really reminds me of Rsirian (I think thats how it's spelled) from The Dark Ability. He gets some beast new power, his enemies nullify it. Then it repeats until he's at god level.

Finn

4/2/2017 05:37:14 pm

Also, I have a death match.
Lucan v. Lindon, end of Blackflame, assuming they had time to prepare but did not know who they would fight.

Mike C

12/19/2016 03:19:39 pm

What do you think about Simon at the end of House of Blades before Crimson and his mask vs Harry Dresden with his Winter Knight powers?

Will link

12/19/2016 03:38:29 pm

Considering the nerf in recent books to Harry's Winter Knight powers, I'm not sure they're an advantage at all. Which I'm still bitter about.

That said, Harry would still win that one. In House of Blades, Simon doesn't have access to the ghost armor yet, so he can't block magic. So, even though he has superspeed and Harry doesn't, Harry has dealt with enough super-fast threats that he'd be ready.

He could stop Simon with his shield bracelet for long enough to catch him in place and burn him alive.

Mike C

12/19/2016 03:46:38 pm

Yeah I'm still bitter about the whole winter knight thing too. I was super excited when he first accepted. I was going with him having that mantle just mainly for the increase in strength to battle Simon's steel to make it a little more even.

I was also thinking that if Simon had the ghost armor it really wouldn't be a fair fight at all.

I would rather see them work together though instead of fight to the death. Wishful thinking...maybe write a book with Butcher...I gotta believe that'd be pretty cool.

Will link

12/19/2016 04:04:59 pm

I was SO excited when he finally accepted, because heroes NEVER accept powers from the villain.

And in Changes, the powers were so cool! Then next book (not counting Ghost Story), the mantle got nerfed a little so he wasn't completely overpowered, which was somewhat of a bummer but still okay. Then in the latest book, it turns out they may not be extra powers at all, but just magical morphine.

Which is just...disappointing. I feel cheated.

I do have to say, though, the real answer to a lot of these matchups is that the characters wouldn't fight. I'm going into this assuming that each of the characters has good enough motivation to fight to the death, so they're only going to avoid fighting if the alternative is their own destruction.

Sean K

12/19/2016 06:37:32 pm

Remember, in Cold Days, Harry was STILL recovering from being dead. He also was able to bench press close to 700 lbs and in Skin Games he went melee on several guys. I was like WTF, wizard beatdown (parkor style)!

Mike C

12/19/2016 06:56:02 pm

Yeah I feel like Jim Butcher was worried Harry was gonna be to OP so he made it a little worse than it was when we first saw the mantle.

Yeah the whole magic addictive drug isn't my favorite way to explain the power but I guess that's what happens when you do accept power from the villain.

Mab isn't even really a villain more like manipulative person who leans more on the Machiavellian side I guess...but she does kinda protect the world from the outsiders.

Elizabeth

12/19/2016 03:31:29 pm

Ozriel vs Suriel. The destroyer versus the Phoenix! Is that the plot of a future novel? Whups.

More seriously :
Eldest Nye versus Suriel 1.0- the prior bearer of Suriel's mantle. In Valinhall. Since I feel location would be important there, maybe. When they give up a mantle does that make them more or less human?

Will link

12/19/2016 03:43:39 pm

Ozriel versus Suriel:

Ozriel would go into hiding and Suriel would be sent to hunt him down. She is reluctant to take on this responsibility, so she would drag her feet searching worlds where she knows Ozriel wouldn't go, with Cradle chief among them. While in Cradle, she would distract herself by intervening in a small problem she can control, and then watch events play out in the same way that some people keep plants on their windowsills just to watch them grow. It soothes her. It's like a desktop zen garden.

Then circumstances would force her to get back to her task, and she would continue searching for Ozriel, encountering a number of obstacles and surprising truths along the way.

Eldest Nye vs. Former Suriel

They're more human when they pass on the mantle, and they lose access to the former extent of their powers.

However, this only means that he would be unable to tear Valinhall apart with the force of his will alone. He'd still have his millennia of experience and skills, as well as his personal power.

However, he's scarred from killing people so he would likely stall, which the Eldest Nye would not do, and the Eldest has the backup of the entire House.

In the end, I don't think the Eldest has enough firepower to kill even a mortal Suriel. In the end, Suriel 1.0 would probably just find a method to cut through the Way and leave.

Avinash

12/21/2016 11:17:49 am

Eldest vs sauriel

Eldest has no mercy

So bye bye sauriel.

And
Osriel vs sauriel

Well just consider

Destroyer vs preserver

Just think. They both are of abidan court so almost similar power

So who do u think has most destructive power

One who can destroy corrupted worlds fully

Or one who leaves the world to be sucked into void

Don't get me wrong. Both have their specialities but to quote
Himura Kenshin
The sword that protects is a noble ideal and one which we should idolise .
But in the end a sword is a weapon that is meant to kill .
So Osriel would obliterate sauriel.

The original quote
“A sword is a weapon. The art of swordsmanship is learning how to kill. That is the truth. What Miss Kaoru says is sweet and innocent talk that only those whose hands have never been stained with the blood of men can believe. But, to tell you the truth, I much prefer Miss Kaoru’s sweet and innocent talk over the truth, indeed I do!”

Simon

12/19/2016 03:35:59 pm

Yes!
Okay I have been waiting for this. By the way, is Simon faster than 100mph?
1. Incarnatios Zakereth v. Valin. I believe these two are the strongest, more than Alin and Indirial. Simon needed the white light to beat the king, so I say Zakereth wins.
2. Simon vs Naruto, Ichigo, Luffy, Mueruem individually. Naruto can lift about 600 tons (he lifted a giant rhino in the Pain fight). Bleach characters can slash meteroires easily. Simon might stand a chance against Luffy. Probably not. Simon is barely stronger than Earthbound, who have bear strength in Steel Diplomacy.
3. Suriel vs Whis and Omni king. The omni king destroyed six universes because he was mad. I think DBZ wins. By the way Will, is there any Wuxia character who could murder Goku (Suriel might) or Superman?
4. Simon vs Rand, Vin from Mistborn, Brent Week chatacters. I havent finished the series so I think only Rand could kill Simon
5. Eithan vs Ywach from Bleach. Ywach can literally change the present. You kill him, he just changes fate and recressurects himself. He is like Eithan, except more omnipotent. I think Eithan could win here as he would dode everything and Ywach does have a weakness with a silver arrow that rakes his powers away. Yeah. massive Dues Ex Machina.

Will link

12/19/2016 03:59:29 pm

1.) Incarnation Zakareth vs. Valin

Zakareth has the edge here. Ragnarus powers were largely what brought down Incarnation Valin, in the end.

2a.) Simon vs. Naruto

I feel like Naruto would be a pain to fight. Tajuu kage bunshin no jutsu creates a thousand clones, and Simon has essentially no AoE. That said, Naruto is also pretty vulnerable; he doesn't have a power that stops him from dying if he gets cut in half.

This would be a weird fight, and I think it comes down to where in the story Naruto is. Since you're referencing Sage-mode Naruto, that's pretty far in, so I'd give it to him. I don't think there's anything Simon could do to efficiently combat the clones, so while Naruto doesn't have the firepower to threaten Simon as much as some other characters do, he would eventually wear Simon down.

But at the peak of Naruto's power, he's older than Simon, which may give him an unfair advantage. If they were the same age, and thus Simon has been given longer to explore the House, I think Simon might be able to get this one.

This is, of course, assuming that neither character is protected by plot armor.

2b.) Simon vs. Ichigo

Ichigo has no defined powers, what he can and can't do varies from week to week, and the magic system has no rules. Simon kills Ichigo and sticks his head on a pike as a warning to future authors who might be developing a system of superpowers that make no sense.

2c.) Simon vs. Luffy

It's established that Luffy can be cut by bladed weapons, so I give it to Simon.

He can counter Gear Second with Nye essence, Gear Third with steel, and Gear Fourth by virtue of Valinhall powers lasting longer. If he needs to, he can wear the mask.

Bottom line is, Simon can endure Luffy's attacks, while Luffy can't take Simon's.

2d.) Simon vs. Meruem

Meruem gets it hands-down. He has virtually unlimited strength and resilience, and he learns and adapts instantly. He's better than Simon at everything Simon is good at.

Meruem wins, Simon is turned into a Chimera Ant.

3.) Suriel vs. Whis and Omni King

The Omni King is established as omnipotent, but as seen onscreen, his powers take time to activate. He starts to will Suriel out of existence, at which point Suriel just leaves that reality entirely.

Whis wouldn't participate in this fight; it's above his pay grade.

3a.) Is there any wuxia character who could murder Goku or Superman?

Yes.

4.) Simon vs. a bunch of characters

I'm...not really sure how to answer this.

Vin's powers are pretty similar to Simon's, but I think Simon takes it. Rand is basically Fantasy Jesus at the end, so I don't think that's even fair. If all of Brent Weeks' characters ganged up on Simon, they would certainly win.

5.) Eithan vs. Yhwach

Bleach's magic system makes no sense, Yhwach's powers are never adequately explained and have no rules, and he only wins or loses at the whims of the author.

Eithan wins by virtue of having consistent powers. He dismembers Yhwach and paints a message in his blood: "MAGIC IS ONLY COOL IF IT HAS LIMITATIONS" as a warning to the world.

Avinash

12/21/2016 11:20:21 am

Regarding simon vs jaruri

naruto will win

Due to a single jitsu

Harem no jistu

We all know how simon will fare against that. Don't we

Lightsyde link

12/22/2016 12:41:10 pm

Haha. I love this reply.

Madeline

12/23/2016 11:35:02 am

Someone else who is disgusted with the fact that Bleach makes no sense!

I stopped paying attention after he gave up his powers to save the world then promptly got them back. Erasing a character's ultimate sacrifice makes that meaningless, no thanks.

Will link

12/26/2016 06:50:39 am

Madeline,

I felt the same way, but even by that point I was irritated that Ichigo has gotten all these power-ups and yet still somehow the Captains are keeping up with him.

But I thought the Hollow mask and Hollow transformation increased his power in leaps and bounds...If that's true, how is he fighting alongside the Shinigami Captains as equals before AND after? The whole creation of the Arrancar and the Vaizards was to create beings more powerful than Shinigami, but the Captains are fighting them the whole time!

...anyway, it just got worse after that. I kept reading it in the same way you might watch a train wreck itself against a brick wall every single week. By the end, he is a Shinigami/Hollow/Fullbringer/Quincy, and yet he is effectively just a Shinigami.

Noah

12/19/2016 04:24:46 pm

Simon vs Rezkin (from King's Dark Tidings)

Will link

12/19/2016 04:28:57 pm

What the heck is King's Dark Tidings?

Noah

12/19/2016 05:16:19 pm

Another book :)

https://www.amazon.com/Free-Darkness-Kings-Dark-Tidings-ebook/dp/B019YM2E62/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482196544&sr=8-1&keywords=king%27s+dark+tidings+book+1

Adarsh

12/19/2016 06:51:35 pm

Oh, I've read that and I think it comes down to the situation. In a straight fight, Simon would eat Rezkin alive since he is much stronger, faster, can render himself invulnerable to blades and magic, and can cure himself of poisons.
However, Rezkin is a master of disguises and assassination. While Simon would be a difficult target due to his time in the house of blades, I think that Rez could successfully pull off the assassination by way of a lightning fast knife to the head IF Simon doesn't have his dolls on him.

Darryl

12/20/2016 12:57:45 pm

You haven't read KDT!!!! Will you're books are amazing as everyone can agree. But I believe even you would gain some interesting ideas for future stories from the plot of 'Free the darkness' (kings dark tidings first book). It is a must read!

Avinash

12/21/2016 11:22:18 am

So consider valin as an incarnation with kias personality but worse

You should read it

Corey

12/19/2016 04:39:15 pm

I can't believe nobody has brought these up yet because this is what we've all been waiting for!

Cradle vs. Valinhal: Simon vs Yerin. And Simon vs Eithan. If Yerin gets absolutely smoked Simon vs Yerins master. I don't think Lindon stands a chance at this point but if you want to put him against Simon too!

Elder Empire vs Valinhal: Simon vs Shera. Simon vs. urzaia. Simon vs. Meia

What about The Emperor vs like probably all of the incarnations. He took out the elders so I feel like the incarnations still may not stand a chance.

Basically I'm wondering how your different universes (or possibly same universe but different iterations like you mentioned above. Which is FREAKING AWESOME!!) stack up against each other. I know you have said before that Simon with the mask on is roughly Underlord ability. So maybe no mask vs Yerin?

Also this is super cool man! BATTLE ROYALE!!!

Simon

12/19/2016 06:06:04 pm

Everyone knows Lord Cory from the best animne Cory in the House would win against all universes. I mean, just look at that godly animation.

1.Simon would crush Yerin with nye esscence. In my version Simon is restricted to only Benson Steel. Yerin's master is either Underlord or above. With mask on, Simon is Underlord leve. In that case, Simon's powers would run out and he'd die. Cool match, I diddn't think of that
2.I think Simon could solo all of Elder Empire, except for Estyr-level and the Elders
3. Im guessing Incarnations are stronger than the Emperor.....

Will link

12/19/2016 08:19:44 pm

Yeah, this is fun! Gotten a lot of comments, which is cool, and it's a neat thing for me to do tonight.

1.) Yerin vs. Simon

Yerin wouldn't get absolutely smoked against no-mask Simon, but I do think she would lose. We haven't fully seen her go all-out yet, so it's closer than you might think, but she doesn't have the raw strength Simon does. Yet.

Simon (the commenter on this blog) is right about Yerin's master: the Sword Sage would toy with Simon (the character) until Simon's powers ran out and he lost.

2a.) Simon vs. Shera

I give this to Simon by virtue of super-speed, but in "Of Killers and Kings" we get to see Shera using both her newly Awakened knife AND Syphren at the same time. In that state, she'd be able to give him a fight, and it would depend on several specific factors (that I don't want to spoil for fear of revealing too many of her new powers).

In summary: current Shera dies.

2b.) Simon vs. Urzaia

The Nye essence gives Simon the edge here, but only at first. Honestly, based on the way Simon fights, he wouldn't start out a duel against an unknown opponent with an all-out offensive blitz. And that would be his best chance.

Urzaia can take a hit from Mithra. His weapons can stand up to it, and his Soulbound Vessel can stop it as well. On top of that, he has the strength to (more or less) match Simon and enough reaction speed that he wouldn't be completely overwhelmed by Nye essence unless Simon pushed it to the limit from the very beginning. Plus, he's dueled a hundred times more people than Simon has.

Given that Simon starts the fight trying to be conservative with his powers and then ramps up, Urzaia wins. If Simon knows how much of a threat he is and treats him that way from the very beginning, Simon MIGHT take it.

2c.) Simon vs. Eithan.

Simon would have no chance to win under any circumstances. If he started out wearing the mask and fully drawing on Nye essence, that's the only chance he would have to see what was killing him.

In any other situation, he would die unaware.

2d.) Simon vs. Meia

Similar situation as against Urzaia, except that in this case it depends on who gets the first move. Because unlike Urzaia, Meia will try to kill Simon instantly.

So if Simon doesn't take it seriously from the very beginning, he's likely to lose. 60-40 Meia. If he does, it swings his way a little bit. Maybe 55-45 Simon.

It would be close, though.

3.) Emperor vs. Incarnations

The Incarnations are not stronger than the Emperor. The Emperor's more powerful than he ever got a chance to demonstrate in scene during the actual stories themselves.

He might have difficulty dealing with them at first, because he doesn't know what they are or how they work. But they would pose no threat to him.

He would observe them, capture them for study, and slowly kill them when they were of no use. Emperor wins, no contest.

***

Great matchups, guys!

Corey

12/20/2016 07:45:18 am

Awesome Will thanks for the response!

The Emperor is way more powerful than a lot of people on the blog give him credit for!

How about him vs. Northstrider or any of those guys Suriel showed Lindon at the beginning of Unsouled. Actually I believe The Emperor would kick any of their butts one on one. How about The Emperor vs. the three strongest people on the planet Cradle? Besides Suriel because she is not a resident of Cradle.

Basically is anyone on Cradle on par with The Elders, or could The Emperor handily destroy anyone on Cradle?

Will link

12/20/2016 08:05:57 am

Their powers work differently, but no, the Emperor would not be one of the strongest people on Cradle. The reason the Abidan value Cradle is because it nurtures and produces extremely powerful individuals.

A fight against Yerin's master would be pretty even. Depends on the circumstances at that point, like how well-armed the Emperor is and how seriously the Sword Sage takes the fight from the very beginning.

Avinash

12/21/2016 11:28:07 am

Simon vs shera

The fight will stall

Simon will try to reason and shear will will probably get bored and sleep. And simon will not attack a sleeping opponent.

Simon vs eithan

Well even if eithan can predict Simon's moments it does not mean he can move as fast and simon will adjust his mental on the go so.
Eithan probably dies on the second or third move i.e. if he does not sees it coming and tries to reason or bargain with simon

Will link

12/22/2016 09:02:14 pm

Avinash,

I know you're not aware of Eithan's powers yet, but you get to see a few of them in Blackflame (and more as the series progresses).

Trust me, it's a bad matchup for Simon. There's no scenario in which he wins.

Aaron J.E.

12/19/2016 05:55:55 pm

Let's get some Sanderson up in here! Let's pit Simon against a Mistborn. I would still give the edge to Simon, but the push/pull on metals might give the Mistborn an opening to get a solid hit in.

I would say Simon vs a Knight Radiant, but we don't really know what an armor-bearing full-oathed knight is like yet.

Simon

12/19/2016 06:20:38 pm

Simon would probably win. With his mask on, I don't think it would be a contest.

Aaron J.E.

12/19/2016 08:27:02 pm

Atium and Bendalloy might be able to make up the difference in speed. Strength is comparable, and they would always know where Simon was due to sensing/pushing on his metals. Like I said, I give the fight to Simon, but I think if he isn't careful the Mistborn could trick him with a speed bubble and a strong push on his blade to throw him off balance.

Will link

12/19/2016 08:22:48 pm

Yeah, Simon vs. a Mistborn would be a BIT weird, because their powers are so similar. And pushing/pulling on metals would make things awkward for Simon at first.

But even if he drops his sword and fistfights, I still think he wins. They would need a significant supply of atium to even keep up with dolls + Nye essence, and even if they could, he seems stronger and more resilient than they are.

Based on what we've seen of the Knights Radiant, I suspect an oathed-up, Shardplate-armored, Shardblade-wielding Knight Radiant beats him handily. The armor is too big of a factor to ignore.

Finbar

12/25/2016 10:12:21 pm

I think a Mistborn would win if the had the see the future metal.
Anyone with a shardblade would be very bad if Simon tried to parry.

Nosna

1/3/2017 09:51:54 am

Wax and Wayne vs Simon

Wax and Wayne vs Yerin

Assassin in white vs sword sage

Empty

12/29/2016 07:06:29 am

Late to this discussion, but I don't think Simon's sword can be pushed, since it would probably be considered an invested item in the most born universe.

Simon

12/19/2016 06:01:31 pm

Let's go.
1. Superman prime One Million v Suriel. if Suriel loses, Superman against entire Abidan Court
2. Valinhall vs Elders and Estyr Six
3. Kai v Bliss
4. Saitama v Suriel, assuming she doesn't banish him and he manages to punch her, would she die or would it not be enough?
5. Neo Matrix v Simon. Fistfight only, no swords
6. Yerin v Simon. Benson Steel only
7. Yerin v Zoro from One Piece
8. Anti spiral from Gurren Lagoon v Suriel. If Suriel loses and against whole Abidan Court
9. Jai Long's white spear v Leah's Ragnurus spear
10. Abidan Court v.s. strongest Wuxia character you can think of.

Will link

12/19/2016 08:42:38 pm

1.) Superman Prime vs. the Abidan Court

I don't know how to score this, really, because Superman is another one of those characters whose power varies wildly depending on the demands of the plot.

I suspect Suriel would banish him from time and space. Then, if he punches through reality or some crap, she'd banish him again. Rinse and repeat.

If that lasted long enough and his power never ran out, it would eventually cause such a disruption that Ozriel would learn of it and come back.

Then he would...deal with it.

Of course, it's not clear if Superman can even conceptually be destroyed. And if he cannot, then he's God and everyone loses.

2.) Valinhall vs. Elders and Estyr Six

Valinhall vs. the Great Elders is an interesting matchup because it depends entirely on which one they're fighting. Against Nakothi, for instance, a full team of Valinhall Travelers would do even better than the Emperor and the Regents did. They would tear Nakothi apart with minimal losses.

Same goes for Kthanikahr or Othaghor. The Emperor WISHES he had an elite team like the Valinhall Travelers when he was going after Othaghor, because he basically just spawns endless minions.

Against Tharlos, on the other hand, the Valinhall Travelers would just have their minds warped and go insane, or they would be turned into ooze or a lamppost or something. He breaks all the rules. Urg'naut's shadows would be able to kill Simon without him ever being able to resist, and Ach'magut would arrange matters so that it never came to a direct confrontation.

Versus Estyr Six...I guess it depends on how many Valinhall Travelers show up. All thirteen could definitely do it, six would be pushing it, three wouldn't be enough.

3.) Kai vs. Bliss

I would love to write this fight.

Probably Bliss, but only because Kai has no frame of reference for understanding her powers. If he did get a sense for them, then he could take it. He's stronger and faster and more experienced in combat than she is. But the weirdness of her powers would be her biggest advantage.

And Kai would need a doll.

4.) Saitama vs. Suriel

Similar situation with Superman: it's hard to do matchups with characters who might, as the story calls for it, have infinite power.

We've seen no upper limit on Saitama's power, so I'm forced to conclude that there is none, in which case he would win against literally anyone if he can land a punch.

If the upper limit on his power is what we've seen up to the current chapter of the manga (and not theoretically infinite) then no, he wouldn't be able to kill Suriel in one punch.

5.) Neo in the Matrix vs. Simon in a fistfight

That's a pickle.

Neo can fly, which would be a pretty big advantage. Also, by the third movie his punches are shattering nearby glass, which is Goku-level. So at that point, I do think Simon would be overwhelmed.

But Neo in the second movie, even with his telekinesis, would be something close to an even match.

Then again, they ARE in the Matrix, and he's effectively hacking the Matrix. So there could always be some sort of edit in the code that allows Simon to exist and continue functioning, at which point Simon would just lose.

But since we're talking power levels and not digital quirks, I call it roughly even (except end-of-movie-three Neo, who would throw him into the sun).

6.) Yerin vs. Simon with only steel

Yerin. She's trained longer with the sword, she would be physically weaker than him but not so much that she would be overwhelmed, and she can do crazy magic things that Simon can't.

7.) Yerin vs. Zoro

I'm honestly not sure what Zoro's power is like nowadays. It also seems pretty inconsistent; he does things like lifting a hundred-ton barbell with one hand, which would essentially make it so that he couldn't use a sword, as the full extent of his strength would warp and break any weapon he used.

I really don't know. I don't have a sense for Zoro's level of power.

8.) Anti-spirals vs. Suriel

They are mortal. Suriel banishes them from time and space.

9.) Jai Long's white spear vs. Leah's Ragnarus spear

Jai Long's white spear breaks immediately and shatters to dust. The Lightning Spear continues on, its momentum barely halted, and runs into Jai Long, who has to expend a great deal of his power to stop it. He lives, but he's wounded, exhausted, and on the back foot.

10.) Abidan Court vs. Linley Baruch at the end of Coiling Dragon

After battles that obliterate worlds, they each separate to their own separate universes, realizing that there is no victory to be had here. If they fight until the end, there is no outcome but mutual destruction.

(That said, the Abidan do not have the ability to create new worlds. They've lost that power. Linley, SPOILER ALERT, can. If he realizes that and finds a way to turn it to his advantage, maybe he could win.)

Avinash

12/21/2016 11:35:27 am

Simon vs Elders
Not necessarily
Against Thalros they could use diamond.
Against Urg'naut's shadows the nye and their essence could give them an advantage.
And as for Ach'magut he would probably try to study them first but by that time with some nye essence the valinhall people could turn him into shis kebab.

Noah

12/19/2016 06:17:11 pm

Match 1: Colin from the soul guard series vs Simon

Match 2: Alex from the HASEA chronicles (after he beats the Sorrow) vs Simon

Match 3: Ahiram from the Epic of Ahiram vs Yerrin

Match 4: Aaron from the book of one vs Eithan

Match 5: Rezkin (kings dark tidings) vs Yerrin. (It's slightly unfair to me because Rezkin's sword skills could certainly beat any of your main characters so far if they had no magic speed, strength, etc, just technique wise, but they do so... It's a moot point)

Noah

12/19/2016 06:49:07 pm

I still think Simon and Rezkin would be a good match since Rezkin so far has shown far superior swordsmanship, experience, and has not even touched his full potential, as noted from the other characters. I mean, you already have over the top speed if you took out the Assassin's Guild.

Will link

12/19/2016 08:46:22 pm

I haven't read King's Dark Tidings or whatever the title is (I'm looking at it and I can't tell if KDT is the series or the book title), but based on the comments here, I will soon.

However, it doesn't sound like Rezkin has actual superhuman speed or strength. If Simon has a doll on him, and therefore can't be surprised, it sounds like he just wins.

Yerin vs. Rezkin would be even more one-sided, unless Rezkin assassinated her or something. She, unlike my other main characters, IS actually very skillful with a sword. And also has the superpowers, et cetera.

That said, still haven't read the book, so I can't be sure.

Avinash

12/21/2016 11:38:59 am

Rezkin
Has
Magic

As I believe as apparent from the fact that he is royal blood and all royals up to first cousin have magic

Also still he can look like whomever he wants so maybe he cannot win in a straight fight but he still has a chance of assassinating simon
It depends on the dolls mostly.
If they can warn simon in time for him to react

Will link

12/22/2016 09:03:51 pm

Well, I said I hadn't read the book. I'm just going from other people's comments.

But even if he does have magic...so what? The whole point of Valinhall is killing magic-users.

Kade

12/19/2016 06:36:38 pm

First Match: Simon fighting against the Emperor from Elder Empire. Simon would win that one I think

Second Match: Entire Marvel and DC Universe vs Abidan Court, excluding the Prescence and The One Above All as they are essentially God and would just change reality so Suriel never existed

Fourth Match: Li Markuth v.s. Yerin's master and Eithan

Final Match: ..................Alin v.s. Color Kid from DC Comics.....
Just kidding. How about Incarnated Alin vs that guy from Unsouled that dove underwater to wrestle with a sea dragon. I think his name was Northstrider or Deepstrider. It was in Suriel's vision/teleportation she showed to Lindon

Will link

12/19/2016 08:59:12 pm

1.) Simon vs. the Emperor

Assuming, as I have for all of these other fights, that the characters actually have a reason to kill one another and are actively trying to do so...no, the Emperor crushes Simon like a bug.

2.) Entire Marvel and DC Universes (minus the omnipotent characters) vs. the Abidan Court

Okay, if we're excluding anyone with infinite power, the Abidan win.

Two reasons:

First, they operate differently than the superheroes/villains do. They're not going to fight, or build a big device, or hatch a complicated scheme. They already control the universe, and they're going to implement one of their contingency plans and shut this down. If necessary, they'll quarantine a world and exile it to the void.

They're working with the laws that form the rules of the universe.

All that said, the Marvel and DC universes would still take it, except for the second thing...

Both Marvel and DC rely WAY too much on infinite powers. If you take those away, they have too little left.

With the Speed Force, the Flash has infinite speed, which effectively makes him invincible and omnipotent. But if you take that away, how fast is he? He can't teleport, he's just very fast.

Superman Prime has unlimited strength AND speed, including at one point when he flew beyond the bounds of the universe and saw God. But if we limit him back to reasonable standards--even ridiculous standards--he's a mortal Kryptonian and can therefore be killed.

Thanos (or anyone else) with the Infinity Gauntlet can infinitely control time, space, and pretty much everything. So that whole thing gets taken away.

The Anti-Life Equation for which Darkseid is searching? Taken away.

Basically, what I'm saying is that in the world of comics, you basically go from "reasonable" superpowers (that is to say, people strong enough to tear steel with their bare hands, fly faster than the speed of sound, and bulletproof skin) IMMEDIATELY to infinite power. There's not much middle ground. You're either limited or you're not.

The Abidan Court operates in that middle ground. They very much have rules and restrictions to their powers, but those rules and restrictions are beyond the scope of what any of the non-infinite superhero powers can exploit. So they win.

If you add in infinite powers, or plot-convenient powers (such as Reed Richards' apparent power to create a machine that can do anything in a short amount of time with any resources), then of course the comics win.

3.) Li Markuth vs. Yerin's master and Eithan

Yerin's master and Eithan take it. In fact, Yerin's master might be able to do it without Eithan's help. Maybe. He and Li Markuth are on a similar level.

4.) Incarnated Alin vs. Northstrider

Northstrider wins. Northstrider runs over him. Northstrider hits him like Godzilla hitting Tokyo.

Gage

12/20/2016 07:06:07 am

Actually the court has a very easy way to cheat against the DC universe, even including the infinite power characters.

In DC it's established there is a universe where the authors exist and the comics dictate the entire multiverse, Lobo even breaks into this world and rewrites his own story.

Anyone in the court would just need to hop into that world and delete every comic and the DC multiverse would simply cease to exist regardless of having 'infinite' power or not.

Superman Prime, Living Tribunal, etc. Doesn't matter just gone.

Sean K

12/19/2016 06:52:20 pm

Eithan vs. Hellsing: I think Hellsing would lose, but how would the fight go?

Eithan vs. Queen Mab from the Dresden Files

Eithan vs. Thor

Yerin vs. the Juggernaut (from x-men)

Lindon vs. the Wolverine

**POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR BLACKFLAME**

Eithan vs. the turtle in Blackflame: We know already that the turtle will win the awesomeness fight, but in a death match, which would walk out? (The turtle was mentioned in the previous blog)

Will link

12/19/2016 09:08:36 pm

1.) Eithan vs. Alucard

I'm assuming you mean Alucard as an individual and not the Hellsing Organization as a whole. Eithan would win because, as overwhelming as Alucard looks, he has a number of exploitable weaknesses.

One-on-one, Eithan would just keep cutting him up until he fully released his powers or ran out of regeneration. If he fully released his powers, then his original body is vulnerable, and since Eithan can instantly sense everything around him in a fairly broad space, he would know that and kill the original.

Even in the situation where he had to go around killing all the individuals, an army isn't really much threat to an Underlord.

2.) Eithan vs. Queen Mab

I...am going to skip over this one for spoiler reasons.

There's a subplot in Blackflame that revolves around what Path Eithan is on, and I can't answer this question without affecting your interpretation of the Path.

3.) Eithan vs. Thor

If you mean the Marvel comics Thor, that would be a good fight. Thor can fly and summon lightning, which would be difficult to deal with, but in the end if Eithan was really motivated to kill him, he could.

No specifics, again, because I don't want to influence your reading of Eithan's Path.

4.) Yerin vs. the Juggernaut

I'm not sure...this is a cool matchup to consider. I'm playing this fight out in my head, and I think it would come down to how long it took Yerin to figure out that she needed to get his helmet off.

She couldn't break the armor, but at the same time he'd be too slow to hit her. I'd think she'd probably kill him through gaps in the armor, cutting him slowly with sword madra. Death by a thousand cuts.

5.) Lindon vs. Wolverine

Wolverine tears him apart. No contest.

Now, if you mean Lindon versus A wolverine, I think he could probably handle that.

6.) SPOILER ALERT

Eithan vs. The Turtle

NONE CAN STAND AGAINST THE MIGHT OF THE TURTLE!

(...but not really, Eithan would win.)

Adarsh

12/19/2016 07:02:18 pm

Lindon vs BATMAN?

Suriel vs Matthew Malloy(X-men)

Simon vs Godzilla(from the newer movie)

That guy Suriel captured in book 1 vs Eithan

Will link

12/19/2016 09:17:45 pm

1.) Lindon vs. Batman

I'm forced to answer in the same way that I would in the case of anyone versus Batman: Batman wins, because he's Batman.

However, this is a death match, and he can't kill. If he did, he would give up being Batman.

So either Lindon would live because Batman would let him, or Lindon would die and Batman would hang up the cape. Either a draw or mutual defeat.

2.) Suriel vs. Matthew Malloy

This is the first comics reference that I actually didn't know.

Based on his Marvel Wiki article, it looks like he would be able to actually have a fight with Suriel, but I'd suspect she would win. She has training in her power and knows how to control it, and has regularly fought with and against beings on a similar scale. She also has weapons and devices designed to harness, control, focus, and enhance her power, while Matthew Malloy does not.

3.) Simon vs. Godzilla

This would be a cool one, actually.

I think Simon would win, because he can damage Godzilla more easily than Godzilla can damage him (it being hard to hit something small and quickly moving). That said, a single hit from Godzilla would cripple Simon or seriously inhibit his ability to keep fighting, while Simon would have to injure Godzilla hundreds of times to make a difference.

In the end, I think they probably couldn't kill each other. Simon would cut Godzilla a bunch and Godzilla, realizing that he can't hit Simon, would retreat into the sea where Simon couldn't follow.

Of course, then there's the possibility that Godzilla turns from a safe distance and fire-blasts the city, which has a decent chance of killing Simon.

Avinash

12/21/2016 11:41:53 am

Of course the bat wins

Cause he's Batman.

Kevin

12/19/2016 07:19:34 pm

You are all nuts. Simon minus his nye essence vs Urzaia.

Will link

12/19/2016 09:20:56 pm

Without the Nye essence, Simon loses what I think is his biggest chance to kill Urzaia: going all-out from the very beginning.

The problem is that Urzaia's hatchets can turn a blow from Mithra, as can his Soulbound Vessel (the hide of a Sandborn Hydra). Without Simon's Nye essence, he can't blitz a win, so Urzaia probably wins on the strength of endurance and superior experience.

Avinash

12/21/2016 11:44:20 am

Simon could still use the mask to win cause urzaia's not that fast the can just change his weight so with his dolls maybe he can compensate
After all he still has steel and the daughter of the wind.

Aaron

12/19/2016 07:20:53 pm

Indirial pre-incarnation VS Vaelin Al Sorna at the end of book one, fully in tune with his Blood Song.

Initially I give the edge to Indirial, who is faster and stronger.

Vaelin's Blood Song MIGHT be enough to give him a chance though. He is naturally gifted with the sword- much like Kai- and the advantage the Blood Song gives him could be similar to the knowledge of the Iron Scroll.

As for weapons, we know that Vasha is nigh-indestructible and since we also know that Vaelin's star-silver edged blade can also cut through armor and break other swords, I'm going to assume that they are on par.

As it is, I say Indirial wins IF he kills Vaelin before Nye runs out. Thoughts?

Will link

12/19/2016 09:23:45 pm

That's pretty much exactly what I would have said.

If the Blood Song is enough of an advantage to keep him alive longer than the Nye essence lasts, then Vaelin has a chance to win. However, even without the Nye essence, Indirial is still a big threat; he has super-strength, and Vaelin doesn't.

But the Blood Song doesn't have a time limit, and it could conceivably be used to dodge Indirial and deal wounds in return.

If the fight lasts three minutes or less, Indirial wins.

More than that, and it depends on how the Blood Song works. I'd say Vaelin takes it if he rolls high, and loses if he rolls too low.

Now, if it's Tower Lord Vaelin, he probably kills himself before Indirial even enters the ring.

Avinash

12/21/2016 11:47:09 am

Aha but then again

Vaelin's blood song let's him predict his opponent's moves and he can affect his opponent's to a certain degree

I mean come on the dude charged a whole army by himself that too after marching for god knows how long

So he might win

Will link

12/22/2016 09:04:53 pm

That's what I said: he might win. But the Blood Song does what it wants, so he might not.

Mahfuz

12/19/2016 07:31:15 pm

Do you read Super Powereds and Mother of Learning?

Simon vs Vince from SP
Simon vs Zorian from MoL

Will link

12/19/2016 09:24:06 pm

I don't!

But maybe someone else does?

Adarsh

12/19/2016 11:52:18 pm

Ive read SP, and I'm going to have to say that Simon would win if he struck first and unexpectedly. Vince needs some forewarning to block attacks by absorbing their energy. However, Vince is also capable of unleashing massive amounts of energy rapidly that would deplete the Ghost Armour before his reserves ran out. So if Vince didn't care about collateral damage and saw Simon coming, I'm going to give the fight to him.

Mahfuz

12/20/2016 05:51:16 am

I agree. I mean Masked Simon calling Nye essence should be fast enough to dodge lightning... right? Assuming he is, can Vince absorb kinetic energy fast enough to neutralize a sword slash? Probably not, at least not yet. Shane cut him right?

Devin

12/20/2016 09:43:13 am

Simon loses that fight if Vince knew he was coming. You cant produce more kinetic force than he can concievably absorb in 3-10 days let alone minutes, and once he turns on his kinetic absorbtion its game over you cant physically harm him with out another form of energy. He just has to touch Simon at that point and he stops his heart or freezes his blood solid. Unless Simon hits him before he can react I'm pretty sure Vince takes this one. Or ya... Vince just drops a few mega tons worth of thermal energy and burns Simon to ashes

Rhys

12/28/2016 04:15:59 am

With simon v zorian, it all comes down to is it in the time loop and does simon go all out. If simon does straight away then zorian loses - he can't shatter simon's mind as he's too slow. However if it is in the loop then zorian keeps trying until he beets simon.

Will link

12/28/2016 09:28:19 am

I think you have to disregard the time loop and assume it takes place at a neutral location, because I've been assuming neutral conditions for everybody.

But I actually just finished reading Mother of Learning, thanks in large part to the fact that I have it recommended to me every couple of days, and I do think Simon wins if he just rushes in for the kill at the beginning.

Yosef

12/20/2016 12:28:29 am

I was thinkning of fair matchs

1) Bliss vs Gavin Guile ( in black prism before he starts going blind)

2) Alin vs Kip

Will link

12/20/2016 08:32:32 am

1.) Bliss vs. Prism Gavin

It's a little hard to say, because Gavin is so powerful and versatile. I lean toward Bliss, simply because she can counter Gavin's powers while Gavin can't counter hers, so it could easily come down to a physical fight. Which she would win, Gavin being no stronger than any athletic man in his forties and her wielding an ancient weapon crafted from the bone of a Great Elder.

However, it wouldn't be EASY for her to counter Gavin's powers, because it would require her to use her powers precisely. Which her powers specifically resist. So there's certainly a scenario in which Gavin wins.

Maybe Bliss 60-40?

2.) Alin vs. Kip

Barring any Lightbringer shenanigans, I don't see a scenario in which Kip wins.

Kip is drafting colors as physical materials, but for Alin, each color in his arsenal is a new superpower. Mostly powers that Kip doesn't have.

Plus he can fly.

Benjamin

12/20/2016 01:56:44 am

Will wight vs the one above all.
Basically who would win in a slap fight between you and Stan lee

Gage

12/20/2016 06:53:28 am

Easy win to Will. Stan has one foot in the grave and Will definately has the age advantage. I'd give three maybe four solid hits before Will walks away victorious. Or maybe runs away because of the cops but eh you win some you lose some.

Will link

12/20/2016 08:01:53 am

Since I'm like seventy years younger than he is, I'd like to think I could take him.

But you never know. He's scrappy.

Avinash

12/21/2016 11:49:23 am

You never know will
You never know

Alo

12/20/2016 03:35:52 am

Drizzt vs. Kai or Simon?

Garth of Lords of Dus vs. Simon or Kai (or someone who'd be better matched)?

Josef from Rachel Aarons Eli Monpress series vs (drawing a blank on who'd be interesting)

Will link

12/20/2016 08:43:08 am

1.) Drizzt vs. a Valinhall Traveler

The hard part of this matchup is that Drizzt doesn't actually have superhuman strength or speed. He can conjure darkness and faerie fire and summon a panther companion, but there are Valinhall answers to all of that.

However, in a pure swordfight, Drizzt would certainly beat Simon. And probably Kai as well, given that Drizzt has had hundreds of years to refine his craft, and is known as one of the most gifted fighters ever to come out of Menzoberranzan.

2.) Garth vs. Simon

I don't know who this is. If you mean Lords of Dust, the DnD campaign, I don't remember there being a Garth.

3.) Josef vs. Anybody

You know, it's been a while since I've read Eli Monpress, and I don't remember the details of Josef's powers. I mostly remember his sword, which would be difficult for most of my characters to deal with.

(Heart of Stone, I want to say? Heart of the Mountain? It was a mountain-sword, I remember that.)

Going down the power scale:

Yerin's master wins. He's fought against weapons with similar powers before.

The Emperor wins because it becomes a fight about manipulating the properties of ancient weapons, and that's his thing.

Eithan wins because he kills Josef without ever being hit by the sword.

Simon...this could go either way, depending on specifics. Here's where my lack of memory about Josef's particular powers hurts me, because I don't know mechanically how his attacks work. I'll call it 50-50, but it might be in Josef's favor.

Yerin almost certainly loses, unless Josef makes some stupid mistake.

Lindon gets his butt kicked, but he would know that, so he'd try to cheat somehow. Maybe poison.

Alo

12/20/2016 02:07:34 pm

Garth is a character from the series The Lords of Dus by Lawrence Watt-Evans. It's a bit old, to be fair, so I'm not too surprised if few people know of it.

Josef himself didn't really have specific powers, he was just so in tune with his swords 'spirits', and working on his Sword Mastery. The Heart of the Mountain was basically the full spiritual pressure of an entire mountain (basically the entire mountain compressed down into a sword).

Will link

12/20/2016 05:33:47 pm

Yeah, never heard of that. Wikipedia says early eighties, which is before my time.

That's what I wondered about Josef. I couldn't remember HIM having any specific powers, I only remembered the fact that his sword was a mountain sealed into sword form. Which is an incredibly cool idea for an artifact.

Tacroy

12/25/2016 01:39:09 pm

The thing about fighting Josef is that when stuff hits the fan you're mostly fighting his sword, not him.

He spends most of the novels intentionally fighting without the sword's powers, and honestly he's not some sort of savant with it - he's just a normal dude with a giant sword and training.

The sword itself has a few millennia of experience, and that's on top of being the physical manifestation of the spirit of a mountain. IIRC it has enough willpower to refuse a direct command from an entity that's about Suriel level, and which has dominion over spirits.

So basically, if we assume Josef actually fights *with* the Heart of War instead of just lugging it around, he'd move up a couple of steps in the power scale.

Against people from Cradle, I imagine that the Heart of War would be hard for anyone above Copper to even look at - the thing would contain enough sword madra to shine as brightly as the sun.

Also, given that in the Monpress series greater spirits can command lesser spirits, I imagine that the sword would have a chance to control madra in its vicinity (and have nearly full control over most sword madra, being that it's the father of all swords).

I don't know that this would be enough to save him against the Sword Saint, but I think it would eventually allow him to win out against Eithan and below.

Sean K

12/20/2016 04:10:47 am

A Couple more!

Yerin vs. Spiderman

Yerin vs. Captain America

Yerin vs. Elder Whisper (the ancient snow fox from the Wei Clan)

Speaking of Elder Whisper...

Elder Whisper vs spiderman

Elder Whisper vs Captain America

Elder Whisper vs Eithan

Elder Whisper vs Sandviper Kral

Elder Whisper vs Simon

Elder Whisper vs the Blackflame Turtle!

Five-tailed Fox

12/20/2016 07:43:38 am

Spiderman is faster and stronger. Yerin could cut his webs and take his punches with her Iron body. I can imagine Yerin getting annoyed as Peter swings around her webbing her down. If he got close enogh, she might win. Captain America without his shield could die from Yerins Striker Techniques.

Elder Whisper is a master of illusion. I think Yerin could break out of it but I dont know if Sacred Animals can advance like Trugold to Underlord. Ill say Whisper wins.
With Simon, he should be dead as he has no experience with illusions. The only one who could kill him is Kral if he poisoned Whisper. Eithan would easily win. He can see through illusions and if he can beat Thor, he can take Whisper

Will link

12/20/2016 08:46:28 am

The Five-Tailed Fox gets it.

Sacred beasts CAN advance just like humans can, though of course their process is a little...weirder.

There is a power in Valinhall that can break illusions, but Simon doesn't have it yet, so he dies.

Elder Whisper vs. Blackflame Turtle

There is no defense against raw Turtle Power.

(But seriously, the turtle does win.)

Jeremiah

12/20/2016 04:18:27 am

I feel like you may have read this:

Simon vs Steelheart (it comes down to is Simon afraid of him)

Actually, anything in that series vs anything in any of yours that you think might make for an interesting match.

Sean K

12/20/2016 06:59:38 am

This is a GREAT idea!! I would wager that the "Mega" supers like Steelheart and Limelight are around Underlord level in strength. What Eithan does seems to be a weakness free version of the guy Daniel and Megan kill at the start of the first book. But Eithan ALSO has incredible strength that we haven't directly seen yet. Still I am pretty sure that means that Steelheart and Limelight would both beat Simon.

Most other supers wouldn't stand a chance against him. Oblivion, however, is too hard to kill. Simon MIGHT be able to get him by traveling that mile in less than 24 seconds before Oblivion can teleport away again.

Fire Fight also is too hard to kill, as true resurrection on the next dawn is kind of hard to deal with. Obviously Suriel would just banish them all to another dimension.

Will link

12/20/2016 08:56:46 am

Yeah, the specific weaknesses would give my guys headaches.

Honestly, the most suited to adapt might be Lindon, who would be the only one of the bunch likely to start by watching and gathering information. Shera would too, actually.

So, I can list some of my characters who would most likely be able to kill the bigger Epics:

1.) Shera vs. Steelheart

Shera's not afraid of him, or anyone else, and Syphren's powers get stronger based on the strength of the opponent. She tears out his soul.

2.) Firefight vs. Lindon

At the end of Blackflame, Lindon wins.

At the end of Soulsmith, it depends on how much time he's given to prepare. And how many resources. He could come up with a way to break illusions and burn her to death, IF he could gather enough accurate information to know that's what he needs to do. Maybe Eithan could tell him.

3.) Obliteration vs. Simon

Depends on how his teleportation power works. How does it identify danger? How fast does it activate?

Otherwise, Obliteration vs. Eithan. Eithan gets close to him quickly and either kills him before his powers activate, or follows him post-teleportation and kills him then.

Volumvax

12/20/2016 05:07:31 am

Suriel vs. Pug from The Riftwar cycle.

Suriel (or he Abidan) vs. the Dread from the same series

Will link

12/20/2016 08:57:41 am

I'm not going to lie to you: I last read Riftwar in high school, so I don't remember enough to answer.

Volumvax

12/20/2016 01:42:30 pm

Very well then, how about the Abidan court vs. the seven from Abhorsen?

And the Abhorsen vs. Simon or Lindon?

Will link

12/20/2016 05:31:48 pm

Do you mean the seven bells? Or the seven who wielded the bells in the novel "Abhorsen"?

Either way, though the bells represent the mechanics of Life and Death, the seven Abidan Judges are beyond the reach of that particular system. I don't think they COULD lose.

The Abhorsen vs. Simon

Simon's easier to do a matchup for, since Lindon can't fight on a comparable level yet (by the end of Soulsmith).

I suspect Simon wins in a straight-up fight, because a lot of Sabriel's (and any Abhorsen's) powers seem tailored for more metaphysical conflicts. She can fight, obviously, but it seems like Simon would be faster, stronger, and more suited for a deathmatch scenario.

But I don't know for sure, because the Abhorsen's specific abilities seem a little vague. It's not inconceivable that she might be able to use magic to kill a mortal directly, in which case Simon would lose and die.

Volumvax

12/21/2016 12:17:34 am

I mean the seven bright shiners who created independent life, bound free magic and made the charter.

Will link

12/21/2016 08:05:02 am

I have no idea, then. 90% of what I remember from those novels are just the bells.

Charter Magic is cool, though, I remember that.

Speed War

12/20/2016 07:28:49 am

Simon in a 20 meter race against a cheetah (75 mph), peregrine falcoln (240), and Quicksilver.

Will link

12/20/2016 08:27:14 am

I'll take this in reverse order.

1.) Simon vs. Quicksilver

Quicksilver wins.

2.) Simon vs. Peregrine Falcon

Simon wins because the falcon only reaches those speeds in a dive, not a twenty-meter horizontal distance.

(To answer your question fairly, I think Simon would lose without the mask, but he would have the opportunity to win with the mask on.)

3.) Simon vs. Cheetah

Simon wins.

Scott

12/20/2016 07:29:44 am

Have you read Hard Magic by Larry Correia? Jake Sullivan only has one talent (mainly) but I'm curious how Simon would match up against someone who can control gravity pretty much completely.

How about Alcatraz Smedry with his talent to Break things that often acts in his own self-defense (let's go with him at the end of book 4, not the end of book 5) vs. Simon and vs. Lindon. I think Lindon might have the edge here because he's developed a sneakier, trickier mind than Simon.

Eithan vs. Alex Verus could be fun, to see how far ahead each of them could read to trap & counter-trap each other.

C.B. Wright's Curveball (whose power, admittedly, is explicitly not clearly defined) vs. Simon and vs. Eithan would make for entertaining fights regardless of the outcome.

Will link

12/20/2016 08:23:49 am

1.) Simon vs. Jake

I think this would likely be settled very quickly.

If Jake goes all-out before Simon does, then Simon doesn't have the strength to resist and gets crushed/immobilized immediately.

That said, Simon has superhuman speed and Caela. So he's likely to get the first move, and if he does, I suspect he could push through Jake's magic long enough to score a lethal hit.

2.) Alcatraz vs. Simon / Lindon

This is kind of cool, because I think you're right: this is the first matchup in which Lindon actually has an advantage over someone with more superpowers. What do you know?

While Simon is going to rush in and find out about Alcatraz's powers the hard way, Lindon would gather information, experiment, and adapt.

That said, this still boils down to that classic case of someone WITH superhuman strength and speed against someone WITHOUT. Eventually, Alcatraz is probably overwhelmed by either one.

Though I think Lindon has the easier time.

3.) Eithan vs. Alex Verus

Boy, this would give me a headache.

Eithan is stronger and faster, but he can't actually see the future. I suspect he could keep the pressure on as Alex is desperately scanning possible outcomes until eventually Alex makes a mistake/gets exhausted...

...however, that doesn't account for what you mentioned: traps. Alex would be not only looking for the future that allows him to survive, but the one that lets him lure Eithan closer to a trap.

But Eithan is aware of anything in the area, so is he going to leave a possibility of actually landing in a trap?

I have no idea how I'd write this.

I think it comes down to what kind of destructive magic Alex has access to / what artifacts he has prepared, versus how seriously Eithan takes this from the start. Because he might actually be able to overwhelm Alex before Alex has a chance to scan and select the future.

But I don't know. It might even just be this mental chess game where they're both standing there trying to out-predict the opponent as they read subtle cues in the enemy's body language and act on those, thus changing the future, thus changing the enemy's action, thus changing their own intended action...

4.) Curveball

I don't know who this is. Google tells me it's a comic, but not what kind of powers he has.

Scott

12/20/2016 08:36:09 am

And now I hope that Eithan someday goes up against a diviner just to see how you do end up writing that - it sounds like it'll be a heck of a ride :D

Curveball's power, at a high level, is making himself lucky and his opponents unlucky. Examples from the author are things like a grenade thrown by an enemy not going off while Curveball is in the room, only to go off as soon as he leaves and more opponents have entered the room trying to chase him, or Curveball being able to leap from foe to foe fighting like he's on wires in Hollywood while the people trying to take him are having their guns jam or their strikes hit their friends instead of CB.

If you have time and are looking for new things to read, I definitely recommend it. He's got everything posted up on his website as well as purchase-able in ebook format.

Will link

12/20/2016 09:00:05 am

That sounds like a really cool power, but also difficult to quantify.

I mean, a character dying of a heart attack in the middle of a fight is definitely bad luck, but is that within the scope of his power? If it is, then he's effectively unbeatable against a mortal.

But otherwise, I think Simon could take him without relying on luck. There's no component of chance to stabbing someone with a sword.

Scott

12/20/2016 11:08:33 am

Curveball's power doesn't make him completely invulnerable - he isn't lucky enough to dodge every single attack thrown at him, for example. With enough strikes in a small enough time period (hello Nye essence) I expect that Simon would be able to win.

The component of chance to Simon stabbing him would be something like this: Simon's foot suddenly rolling/slipping as he shifts his balance, making the thrust pierce through CB's jacket instead of his chest. Now, how many times that could happen before CB's power just can't keep up....that I don't know.

And yes, all the matchups I proposed were definitely in the realm of "difficult to quantify" - I like the idea of your warriors having to adapt to face off against opponents that aren't pure fighters themselves. It may not be in the truest spirit of the Deathmatch ideal, but it makes for fun imaginary scenes!

Weekly Deathbattles

12/20/2016 07:51:04 am

Hey Will. What if to save you time on monthly stories you alternate between writing a deathmatch. You could make a poll of characters you choose!
....
.....
.....
Or am I the only one who wants more action?

Will link

12/20/2016 08:10:23 am

The funny thing is, I usually steer away from action scenes in the short stories, because there's lots of that in the main books. I see these as opportunity for character- and world-building that I can't fit into the novel stories.

But action scenes would be WAY, WAY easier to write. And also I enjoy them.

Hypothetically, would a pure action short story interest you? Or anyone else?

Scott

12/20/2016 08:14:02 am

A pure action short story would be an interesting change of pace, I'd think.

Then again I'm one of those readers who, at this point, will give pretty much anything you write a shot.

Weekly Deathbattles

12/20/2016 08:23:38 am

Pure non-stop action is the best.

Corey

12/20/2016 10:22:14 am

A pure action scene would be awesome! I'd definitely read that! But let's be honest I'll read anything you put out.

I also think a funny short story would be to have some of the main characters just meet each other somehow. Say two or three characters from each series you have (or however many you want really). I think it'd be hilarious to see Yerins reaction to Simons 7 foot long blade. Also Eithan just screwing with everybody. Leah trying to be a queen but also being hopelessly outclassed by Eithan who is also royalty. Lindon and Calder doing something comical. Meanwhile Shera finds the nearest place to nap and sleeps through it all.

I think a death match would be awesome but the characters just meeting would be very comical and entertaining. You might even be able to do it all in the same story. Like they all find out their deathmatches were a dream so they just decide to hang out for a bit.

I may be the only on that thinks this would be cool though... who knows.

Simon

12/20/2016 10:27:07 am

Its cool. Most of Wills characters take it too seiousky. It would be funny for Eithan to mess with Leah, Shera, and Simon. I can imagine the dolls loving him
Calder would get along well as hebis a joker also

Lightsyde link

12/22/2016 01:03:53 pm

Yes yes!! This would interest me greatly!!!

Chris

12/20/2016 08:11:56 am

Lord Loss (demonata series) vs the emporer.

Will link

12/20/2016 09:00:32 am

Never read Demonata. I got nothin'.

Just Sayian

12/20/2016 08:26:01 am

Wheres Goku?

Alright Ill bring him in.
Goku vs Elders and Emperor. If Goku loses, then Beerus comes in.

Will link

12/20/2016 09:11:27 am

Based on what we've seen from Dragon Ball Super recently, even the creators of the show have no idea what power levels mean. We have Super Saiyan Trunks fighting evenly with Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta, which makes NO sense. Plus Goku gets pricked by a poison needle during his fight with alt-universe Freeza, which seems to violate canon in like three different ways.

This effectively means that recent events have suggested that Goku isn't really THAT strong.

Anyway, disregarding recent events that retcon Goku's strength and using our own reasonable standard of his power level...

1.) Goku vs. the Emperor and the Elders

Let's assume, first of all, that Goku doesn't just blow up the planet and cause everyone to lose.

...although, now that I'm thinking about it, that would be the worst thing he could do. Without the existence of Intent-wielding humans, the Elders would be free of their confines, and they would escape into their true forms. At which point they would unmake Goku at a conceptual level. The Emperor would still die, but his team would win the battle.

However, assuming Goku doesn't destroy the planet, he would tear apart the Emperor and about half the Great Elders. Any of them that work physically: Nakothi, Othaghor, Kthanikahr. He'd blow up their minions, fly in, and tear them to pieces.

But against the more metaphysical Great Elders--Urg'naut, Tharlos, Ach'magut--I suspect he'd have his mind devoured or his soul ripped out or something. As far as I can tell, he has no ability to resist powers like that.

And I can't imagine Kelarac wouldn't be able to outwit Goku.

2.) Beerus vs. Elder Empire

It depends on how Beerus' powers as the God of Destruction work in a universe that isn't his own.

If he can still unmake entities the way that he unmade Zamasu, then he would certainly win. The Great Elders actually can't be unmade this way, so they would re-form in the void and attack some other, random world, but that's not enough to invalidate Beerus' victory.

However, if he's relying on sheer strength and not his authority as the Destroyer, then he has the same result as Goku. He might be able to resist one or two of the metaphysical Elders, because presumably gods have some kind of spiritual/mental fortitude, but all of them working together could probably defeat him.

Whis, on the other hand, likely just wins. I can't see the Elders beating him physically or metaphysically.

Just Sayian 2

12/20/2016 09:22:19 am

Woah. I thought you would say Goku would lose immediately.

How about Naruto. Him vs Emperor.
And vs physical Elders, not metaphysical.
Use Sage of Six Paths Naruto

Will link

12/20/2016 09:37:14 am

I've seen nothing in the series to suggest that Naruto could ever compete on Goku's level, so I'd think Naruto loses to everybody.

Now, that's assuming he walks in and tries to fight Nakothi (or whoever) on his own. As part of a team, like for instance one of the Emperor's teams that actually went against the Great Elders, I think he'd be a huge asset. And a big threat to the Elders.

Naruto vs. the Emperor would be the closest fight. Naruto's powers are more physically threatening than the Emperor's, since he can use blasts of destruction and the Emperor can't. However, the Emperor's powers of Intent can also counter a lot of what Naruto's capable of doing--the Emperor would have superior elemental control to Naruto, for instance, and he could likely make Naruto's clothes shrivel up and start strangling him. He effectively controls the whole world around him.

So the incompatibility of powers makes this a little bit of an awkward matchup, but I'd PROBABLY give it slightly to Naruto. 51-49. The Emperor is smarter and older and wiser, but Naruto has many crazy powers in one body.

Just Sayian 3

12/20/2016 09:40:38 am

Woah, that is so awesome. I thought you would say Naruto would be totally demolished! Thta sounds like an epic fight.

By the way Will, go to sleep. It's late.

MANUEL

12/20/2016 08:36:20 am

Suriel vs Siberian (just the projection, she doesn't attack the original)
Suriel vs Zion
Simon vs skitter

Adarsh

12/20/2016 09:22:07 am

Ok, The Siberian would just get banished.

By Zion you mean Scion, right? I would hand it to Suriel since Scion is just a member of a race of massive entities capable of existing in multiple realities at once(I think). Suriel should be able to destroy or at least quarantine him. Also, it is mentioned that one race managed to create a technology capable of ejecting Scion/his kind from their planet. If mortals can do it, so can Suriel.

Skitter would die, since Simon can cure himself of poisons.

Will link

12/20/2016 10:02:08 am

Yeah, for both the Siberan and Zion/Scion (both names are equally correct), I'm assuming Suriel has a reason why she HAS to stand and fight instead of doing something else, like calling in help or having the world exiled or banishing them beyond existence.

I'm assuming that for the sake of the fights being fun and interesting.

In the story, if Suriel had to stop a being of Zion's level, she wouldn't really go in there and fight him; she'd reverse the effects of whatever he did, banish him somewhere else, and then seal the world against him while he made his way back through the Iterations.

Will link

12/20/2016 09:27:12 am

At last, here's Worm! I was waiting for this! I thought people would bring up Worm characters immediately, and I was kind of prepared for it, but this took longer than I expected.

1.) Suriel vs. Projected Siberian

The real answer to this is that Suriel analyzes the structure of the energy making up the Siberian projection and--depending on the mechanics of how the power works--either severs it from the source or deconstructs it, destroying the projection.

However, I suspect you wanted a punch-em-up, so let's take that case.

The Siberian's hit isn't enough to break Suriel's armor, but it knocks her backwards. At which point Suriel realizes this, does some calculations with her Presence, and retaliates with a blow that should knock the Siberian into orbit.

It fails, because the Siberian disperses any kinetic energy directed into her. All that energy has to go somewhere, so it's either absorbed by the construct itself or vented into her surroundings.

If it's absorbed by the construct, then Suriel has no choice but to sever, disassemble, or overload the construct, again depending on the mechanics of the power. If it's vented into her surroundings, then Suriel hits her hard enough to send a square-mile chunk of the city into orbit.

2.) Suriel vs. Zion

This is more even than anyone else vs. Zion, because Suriel can counter his most overpowered ability: Contessa's power. Her Presence is connected to Fate and has similar capabilities, so they can both see what steps are needed to defeat the other.

This would be a fight that would threaten Suriel, and I could see her contacting other Abidan for help. In the end, if she had to fight alone, it would be a close battle. This is an enemy she would normally call Gadrael, Razael, or Ozriel for.

I believe she COULD take it, but it would be difficult.

3.) Simon vs. Skitter

This would be the most irritating power Simon has ever gone up against.

As long as we are talking Skitter and not Khepri, I think Simon would get it. She still doesn't have superhuman speed, so while she's commanding her deadly cloud of insects, he just runs up in bullet time and puts a sword through her head.

Thanks Will

12/20/2016 09:18:35 am

Eithan vs Elder Whisper
I think Eithan wins easily.

Elder Whisper vs Asphidel Incarnation. Im a genius. Im saying Whisper here

Strongest Cradle character(no Suriel) vs Strongest Elder

Will link

12/20/2016 09:41:12 am

1.) Eithan vs. Elder Whisper

Eithan does win.

2.) Elder Whisper vs. Asphodel Incarnation

This would be another one of those really interesting, sort of irritating fights where everyone is trying to figure out what is real and what's just an illusion.

Honestly, I think this probably comes down to chance. One of them falls into the other's trap first, and it's 50-50 who.

3.) Strongest sacred artist vs. a Great Elder

It's hard to say who the strongest Great Elder is, because they each measure strength differently.

However, the strongest sacred artist in Cradle would be able to solo any of the Great Elders. Of course, that would only disperse them and make them spend centuries re-forming, since they don't treat death the same way mortals do, but it's enough for the sacred artist to win the battle.

Avinash

12/21/2016 11:57:21 am

I don't think anyone from sacred valley could win against an under lord. For "reasons" still not disclosed .

As for the strongest sacred artist vs any great elder
Call it an intuition but I think the strongest one could take on more than one at a time , after all someone did seal all of them in that singular world

Comfusef

12/20/2016 09:59:26 am

......Leah vs Hanging Tree.....
Ill explain.
When reading TG Chronicles, The first Queen died as the Hanging Tree sucked her dry when trying to seal Rhalia.
How come when Leah tries to seal Zakereth she isnt sucked dr?

Will link

12/20/2016 10:05:09 am

[CITY OF LIGHT SPOILER ALERT]

During the Chronicles, the first queen is using her blood to feed the Hanging Tree a sacrifice.

Leah doesn't get to that point. The Tree would have needed a blood sacrifice to power it very soon. In seconds, in fact, or Zakareth would have just broken free.

But Simon decapitates him before that becomes necessary.

12/20/2016 10:07:45 am

So that's why Leah told Simon to kill him. She would died and there would have been no queen.

Will link

12/20/2016 10:11:04 am

It didn't necessarily have to be Leah. In the Chronicles, Queen Cynara is the only one around.

But yeah, someone would have had to die if Simon didn't kill him.

Avinash

12/21/2016 11:59:46 am

Also it's apparent
That the queen decided to be imprisoned under the tree rather than run amoke as an incarnation (at least till she still had complete control of her mind/personality)

Will link

12/22/2016 09:06:41 pm

Yep. Absolutely true. Queen Cynara is voluntarily allowing herself to be sealed, which obviously Leah wouldn't do.

Scott

12/20/2016 11:21:05 am

How about a face-off between the emperors - one from the Blackflame Empire, one from Asylum?

The Blackflame emperor vs. the Sword Sage, or vs. any of the top-end sacred artists that Suriel showed to Lindon? I expect that the emperor would lose to the latter handily, but I'm not sure about the Sword Sage.

You did say this was a good way to squeeze out hints...heh.

Will link

12/20/2016 12:22:19 pm

1.) Emperor vs. Emperor

The Aurelian Emperor COULD win this, but only if he had time to prepare. If they're both tossed into an arena without warning, the Blackflame Emperor takes it. His weapon and his sacred arts are always with him.

2.) Blackflame Emperor vs. Sword Sage

The BF Emperor is one stage lower than any Sage, and he knows that. If he were forced to do battle against a Sage, he would seek to die with honor and dignity, acquitting himself as well as possible.

3.) BF Emperor and the Sword Sage vs. Luminous Queen Sha Miara

They don't even make it to the battlefield. Her guards kill them both before they get close.

Simon vs Suriel

12/20/2016 11:30:37 am

No, not the Simon from Travelers Gate

I'm talking about apprently the strongst animne character, stronger than Saitama and Goku.

Its Simon the Digger from Gurren Lagoon.

Here is a link explaining him

http://aminoapps.com/page/anime/4368923/simon-the-strongest-character-in-anime

Simon VS Suriel

12/20/2016 11:33:13 am

I know Suriel could banish Simon.

But these are charactesr who can grow bigger than galaxies and take Big Bang blasts. Do you think Suriel could easily shrug these off or is Simon the Digger in over his head?

Will link

12/20/2016 12:14:55 pm

First of all, I'm a little insulted that you thought I needed a link to know who Simon from Gurren Lagann was.

Why do you think the son of Kalman is named Simon?

However, I do have an answer to this matchup.

1.) Simon the Digger vs. Suriel

Personally, I don't subscribe to the theory that Simon and his various Gurrens are actually growing big enough to hurl galaxies like Frisbees. Having that literally happen would break way more rules than the series accounts for, most notably gravity. An existence that enormous would measurably affect every object in every galaxy, destroying most if not all life.

There's evidence to suggest that Simon and the Anti-Spirals have actually ascended to another dimension superimposed over their own, and it just happens to look like a colorful version of the universe speckled with galaxies. So they're fighting in their own sealed-off space, so to speak, and they're visible in Earth's atmosphere because of a plot-convenient rift overlooking their battle.

In that case, Suriel banishes him beyond time and space.

However, if we go with the explanation that everything in Gurren Lagann is literally happening, we have to explain HOW. How are they battling on a universal scale and using galaxies as individual, solid objects instead of the vast collection of gravity-caught particles they effectively are?

There's only one answer: Spiral Energy. Which means that Spiral Energy is in effect the power to break the laws and rules of existence. The power of chaos. The power that defies the Way, which is the source of Suriel's authority.

In other words, dealing with entities like that one is literally Suriel's job.

Someone else would fight Simon and destroy him--Razael probably, Ozriel if the damage was too bad and they needed to burn everything to the ground. Then Suriel would come into the world and fix what could be fixed. That's her role.

The problem with Suriel fighting him directly is that everyone ELSE would die. The first thing she would do is re-establish the logic of the Way, which means gravity would have its usual effect again, and then the galactic combatants would instantly collapse into singularities and all inhabited planets would lose alignment and be destroyed.

Simon

12/20/2016 12:01:58 pm

So Elder Empire is in iteration Asylum. Travelers Gate must bebin iteration Amagldon, or something like that as I forgot the exact name

Wll said Suriel favors Cradle as it has the strongest characters. But I thought Cradle are like babies. There are other iterations with people too strong. So the Abidan Court watches for Cradle citizens becoming too strong and puts them in the next strongest planet, right? Just like Li Markuth, who wanted to return.

Will link

12/20/2016 12:16:26 pm

Amalgam: a mixture of combination of elements or traits.

Kaden

12/20/2016 12:20:17 pm

What about Goku vs Li Markuth?
So we kno Goku can handle the emperor. Goku probably doesnt need blue. Im assuming he only need Super Sayian 2 to finish the Emperor.
Markuth must be stronger, so Goku needs super sayian 3.
What say you Will? If Goku needs Ssj God, Ill be very scared for Linon.

Kade

12/20/2016 12:50:18 pm

I have a feeling youll say Goku wins with his eyes closed.
Goku probably needs Super Sayian God to defeat Northstrider, NineCloud Princess, and the other blonde girl Suriel showed Lindon.
Would they stand a chance?

Kade

12/20/2016 02:34:10 pm

Might as well get a hint to how strong the threat that will destroy Sacred Valley is.
Super Sayian 3 Goku vs Dreadgod

Kade

12/20/2016 02:56:51 pm

Here's my reasoning Will.
EE Emperor is about the same as powerful ad BF Emperor. You said NineCloud princess guards would destroy him. Li Markuth is about the same as Sword Sage, who I think is equal to the EE Emperor. Goku will have an easier tine defeating the dreadgod than Northstrider etc.
Im sure super sayian blue could easily take them.

Kade

12/20/2016 03:08:49 pm

Oops. Miscalculation. The Sword Sage is stronger than BF Emperor and therefore stronger than EE Emperor. Li Markuth equal to the Sword Sage. Now that I think about it, wasn't Markuth too strong for Cradle. He came back to Cradle from another world. Wouldn't that mean he is the strongest Cradle character as Northstrider and the others are still only in Cradle?

Will link

12/20/2016 05:24:25 pm

This is...a lot in a row, but I'll try to summarize.

1.) Goku vs. Li Markuth

Goku wins. I'm not sure what SS level he'd need for it, because as I've complained about elsewhere, the DBZ power scale is pretty messed up right now.

2.) Why did Li Markuth make it out of Cradle?

He did not make it to the top of the power scale and then ascend, but he did make it out.

So there must be other ways out of Cradle...

Kade

12/20/2016 05:37:42 pm

Sorry about the confusion. What about Goku vs Northstrider, Nincloud Princess, and the empire girl in the bar?.

Will link

12/20/2016 07:08:32 pm

The problem with any matchup involving Goku is that even the writers of Dragon Ball don't seem to know how strong Goku is.

SS2 Future Trunks is fighting alongside SSBlue Goku in the last arc, even though by all rights even the aura from an SSBlue should have blasted Trunks into the sun.

So idk. Let's say they're Super Saiyan God level, even though there's really no way to quantify it.

Rhys

12/20/2016 12:52:08 pm

Here are a few interesting ones for you Will. The Aurelian emporer vs Glorfindel. Simon vs the Balrog. Sauron vs luminous queen Sha Miara. Melkor vs Suriel. Also obi-wan or anikin (pre mustafar) vs simon/yerin.

Will link

12/20/2016 06:06:38 pm

Awesome! Lord of the Rings questions!

1.) Emperor vs. Glorfindel

I can't be entirely certain of Glorfindel's level of power, but I suspect he takes this. He initially died dueling a Balrog, which would certainly be less powerful than one of the Great Elders, but then he was restored to life with greater power. He's considered an even match for a Ringwraith at that point, and he's supposed to have great power against both mortals and spirits...

...but I can't see him beating the Emperor in a straight-up contest. He'd be even older than the Emperor, and would therefore have more experience, but the Emperor has access to an arsenal of invested weapons. He can make the ground swallow Glorfindel up, steal the power of Glorfindel's enchanted armor and weapons, and essentially block anything Glorfindel does.

Glorfindel's powers--and elven magic in general--are broad enough that I could be wrong, but I don't see any reason to believe that Middle-Earth in the Third Age had anyone with as much explicit power as the Emperor had. Even Gandalf the White can't freely use that level of power.

Gotta give it to the Emperor.

2.) Simon vs. the Balrog

This may come as a surprise that I would say this, but I think the Balrog gets it.

Here's why: the Balrog should still have eons of experience in addition to its repertoire of dark magic. I doubt it can be beaten by anyone with powers as straightforward as Simon's.

3.) Sauron vs. Sha Miara

Spoilers!

Seriously though, I THINK Sha Miara would take it (although just like with Glorfindel, the precise extent of Sauron's power is pretty vague). This hasn't been explored yet, but basically the nature of Sha Miara's madra is countering and controlling other people's skills.

He could raise armies, and she could banish them or take them over. Any spell he cast, she could break it.

More than that, at her level, she could simply walk into Mordor. She'd leave it a crater. She's the nuclear weapon of her nation.

3.) Obi-Wan and Anakin vs. Simon and Yerin

Because I think it's more fun to team them up.

Obi-Wan and Anakin have the advantage of Force precognition, years of experience fighting together, and superior weapons. Yerin and Simon have the advantage of actual superpowers.

In the end, I'm going to have to concede it to the Jedi.

Because THEY HAVE THE HIGH GROUND

Rhys

12/21/2016 03:06:09 am

Awesome thanks will. I might disagree with your answers with sauron though, but that's just me being a fanboy. And it's true, obi-wan would make sure they had the high ground. I notice the melkor/suriel fight wasn't mentioned. Would suriel simply banish him from time and space? The first of the valar?

Will link

12/21/2016 08:10:50 am

Oh yeah, I forgot about Melkor/Suriel.

I'd guess Melkor would win? Suriel wasn't involved in the creation of the universe like Melkor was, so presumably he knows some sort of primordial creation magic that is beyond her understanding.

Sauron vs. Sha Miara, revisited

The problem with Sauron is that he threatens to take over a world of relatively low magic. So he's a big deal there, but I don't see how he'd fare well in a different world. In Wheel of Time, for instance, I'd think someone would just balefire him out of existence.

If Sha Miara and Sauron switched places, Sauron could be a strong wandering sacred artist, but it doesn't seem like Sha Miara would have any trouble taking over Middle-Earth.

Finn

1/31/2017 02:01:46 pm

I think this comment might be coming way to late after this whole thing was posted, but ANY character vs. Tom Bombadil. Also Lucien (Is that how you spell his name?) v. Yerin, Simon, Lindon, Kai, Indirial, Leah, or Naruto.

Gio Peralto Pritchard

12/20/2016 01:52:13 pm

Yerin (end of Soulsmith) vs Li Markuth

Lane

12/20/2016 02:29:42 pm

Okay, so how about LinMeng(Linley Baruch) from Coiling Dragon VS. Suriel/ Abidan Court/ Great Elders before sealing.
Not all at once though, one individual/group at a time.

Simon

12/20/2016 02:38:10 pm

Will already said Linley and Suriel's battle would destroy universes. They would retreat, but if Linley discovered Suriel/Abidan Court can not create worlds, he would have a slight advantage. Otherwise a tie.
In that the unsealed Elders are still weaker than Suriel, so Linley should win.

Lane

12/20/2016 02:50:27 pm

Oops, guess I missed that one. Sorry for the repeat question!

Ilya

12/20/2016 03:44:37 pm

What about Yerin with Valinhall powers VS. Calder with Valinhall powers?

Wha%ttt?????

12/20/2016 03:57:38 pm

Interesting.....
Would they still have their previous powers? If so, Yerin wins.

If not, it would depend if one has nye esdcende and the mask. Lets say the both do. It comes down to pure swordplay and Will said Yerin is a better sword fighter than Simon. Yerin stills wins as I dont think Calders swordplay is as good. He certainly did not have strict training like Yerin.

Will link

12/20/2016 06:08:53 pm

Man, that's a cool question.

I'll still give it to Yerin, for the reasons stated above. Calder has training in fencing and experience using a saber, but it's not like he was trained as the disciple of a wandering swordsman.

If they can use their previous powers, Calder being a Reader adds an interesting dimension to the Valinhall powers, but it doesn't touch having an Iron body on TOP of the ability to call steel, plus Striker and Ruler techniques.

Avinash

12/21/2016 12:05:49 pm

If they had access to their previous power then
Yerin wins
As she would be able to acquire many of the valinhall powers quickly
But Calder would have to cultivate and gain a new way which takes time

So yerin will be better equipped as she would have gained much from valinhall in a short time .

Simon

12/20/2016 03:51:52 pm

I see where Kade is confused. There might be a contradiction as Will said the sword sage might win against the EE emperor in an earlier post. Now, the sword sage is stronger than BF emperor, meaning the sword sage would easily kill EE empeor.

Here, Ill solve the problem. Hey Will.
Li Markuth and Sword Sage vs Princess Ninecloud, Northstrider, and the group of warroirs in the bar.

If Markuth and Sage lose as easy as BF emperor, they are slightly stronger/ equal than BF and EE emperors

Simon

12/20/2016 04:37:43 pm

No, I'm wrong.

I found this from Will's post.
Will: the Ninecloud Court princess and Northstrider are a level beyond Li Markuth and the Sword Sage, who are both a level beyond Underlord. Some of those would defeat the Emperor and the sealed Great Elders easily, some would have a hard time, and some of them couldn't do it.

Simon: Bottom line, Li Markuth and Sword Sage are underwhelmed. Though, would they still lose as easily as BF Emperor? They're both above Underlord, so we'll have to see what level BF Emperor is on.I think they'd put up a better fight. I'm going to assume that Sword Sage and Markuth are at least slightly stronger than the two Emperors, so the Sword Sage would defintly win against EE Emperor.
Sorry for the confusment.
P.S. This comment section is getting really big. I guess a lot of people are interested in this. Who knew?

Simon

12/20/2016 05:00:09 pm

That still doesn't anwser Kade's question though on how Goku would fare against Northstrider, Prince Nineclouds, and Miss-I'm-blonde-and-snoring-and-apparently-super-strong-making-me-awesome-and-we-call-our-group-an-empire.

And it doesn't anwser how Li Markuth is too strong for Cradle yet is obviously weaker than the Northstrider. How come those three haven't surpassed Cradle? I'll wait for Will to anwser Kade on that one, so he doesn't have to explain twice.

Will link

12/20/2016 06:12:52 pm

I have trouble answering matchups with Goku in them because even the creators of Dragon Ball don't seem to know how strong Goku is.

I mean, supposedly Super Saiyan is a huge step up, and SS2 is a huge step up from there, and so on, including SSBlue. But in the Goku Black arc, there are several times where Goku Blue loses and no longer has the power to sustain his transformation, and then CONTINUES fighting as an ordinary Super Saiyan. Or even regular black-haired Goku. And he doesn't get vaporized in the first hit.

You would think that a punch from him would atomize a hole through the planet in SSBlue form and only shatter rocks in regular, but they seem to be much closer than that.

Except not really; the real answer is that power levels make no sense.

So how would Goku fare against the top level of Cradle? If this was DBZ, he'd start out by thinking they were really strong, but not as strong as he is. He'd eventually reveal his true power, only for them to reveal THEIR true power, and so on and so forth until Goku eventually won somehow.

Doc Mosh

12/20/2016 04:02:26 pm

While I think a match up would be interesting, I find it more interesting to delve into what Suriel and the Abidan court actually is... are they "gods" or "architects" ???

Will we ever know?

Simon

12/20/2016 04:15:42 pm

All I know for sure is they used to have the ability to create worlds, but not anymore. That means they can no longer create life and are now guardians making sure the flow of fate is unchanged. They keep order, destroying planets embroiled in chaos.
Id say they used to be architects but know they are only celestial beings or "gods" trying to keep their endangered workds or iterations in order and protect it from chaos.

Will link

12/20/2016 06:14:00 pm

They're like rulers and guardians of an interdimensional system that's sort of like a government, designed to keep the Iterations under their control safe, separated, and as free from outside intervention as possible.

Rhys

12/21/2016 03:08:48 am

Outside intervention from where exactly? Like outide the abidan's controlled area?

Will link

12/21/2016 08:12:05 am

Spoiler-light answer:

Yes.

Avinash

12/21/2016 12:07:39 pm

So what exactly is the curruption

Is it like anything that the abidan cannot control or is it a separate entiry entirely

Suriel Prescensce

12/20/2016 04:22:56 pm

How does the Prescense wok? Is it a construct. A drudge? Both? Does Suriel even have a Remnant? I think not as she can't die.

Sean K

12/20/2016 05:12:46 pm

I'm thinking that one of the steps to become a Celestial is that you have to die. You have to attain the power greater than an Underlord and doing something either before or during death to transcend cradle. Then there are stages of celestial similar to those found in Cradle. Li Markuth wanted to come back to Cradle, his home, as he became the weakest among the Celestial (I think). He didn't like having to start back again at basically the foundation stage.

Will link

12/20/2016 06:16:39 pm

A drudge is a particular type of construct. A Presence is something like a construct, only much more advanced.

You could think of it as a magical computer made of thoughts.

And Suriel did not grow up in Cradle. The FIRST Abidan came from Cradle, and MANY Abidan still do, but not ALL of them do.

Avinash

12/21/2016 12:12:25 pm

So
Are the celestial like the ascended beings from Stargate
That have left the physical plane for a higher state.
Or are they like the meddlers that are born as energy beings and are able to change to matter based forms by travelling at square of speed of light.

Will link

12/22/2016 09:09:20 pm

I've never seen Stargate, so I have no idea.

But no, they're not made of pure energy.

Sam

12/20/2016 06:53:01 pm

No! I ruined the comments having a nice nimber of 150! Now its 151!
Oh well.

Question: What color is Suriel's skin?
Is it blue like Gadrael. Or can Judges have normal human skin also?
I picture it as either fair or light blue.

Will link

12/21/2016 08:13:19 am

It's pale, like a white human's. She started off human, actually, though Gadrael didn't.

Faris

12/20/2016 08:01:01 pm

Suriel versus Suriel

Suriel Wins

12/21/2016 08:04:29 am

DEVIATION DETECTED:
LOW POSSIBILITY:If one became strongerbyhan the other by training harder, that Suriel wins......
LOW POSSIBILITY:The real Suriel calls all the Abidan Court and banishes the clone. You could bait her with healing others or something.
HIGH POSSIBILITY:Like the fit with Linley Baurach they go their seperate ways after realizing its a lost cause....

Will link

12/21/2016 08:13:49 am

It's a tight battle, but eventually Suriel wins.

Ben

12/20/2016 08:34:06 pm

Not disagreeing with you per se Will, but could Yerin really beat Juggernaut? Would she even be able to pierce his skin? He has a Wolverine level healing factor, never gets tired, Hulk level strength, and a force field. I'm sorry I just don't see it.

Will link

12/21/2016 08:20:29 am

As with a lot of these other matchups, that's because Juggernaut's powers are inconsistent.

Sometimes he crashes into a building and the whole building comes tumbling down, leaving him walking out of the rubble unharmed. Other times--in the comics, not even counting the movies or the cartoons or whatever--he runs into a car and barely dents it, having to shove it out of his way. Sometimes his powers are explicitly stated as JUST being the forcefield, which makes him invincible and unstoppable, while other times he's considered to have super-strength et cetera and he actually needs the armor.

Kind of like how sometimes Cyclops at max power hits a tree like a lightning bolt, and sometimes his beam blasts into space and cuts a satellite in half.

I was imagining a version of Juggernaut on the low end of the scale. If we're taking max-power Juggernaut as you're discussing here, then Yerin could still do it, but she's have to get desperate. Anything more specific is too spoiler-y.

Ben

12/21/2016 06:56:55 pm

Hmm. Looking forward to the books even more now.

Will link

12/22/2016 09:09:57 pm

Book 4, Ben! Book 4.

Bryce

12/21/2016 06:23:56 am

So instead of a straight matchup i instead have a question somewhat related to it. Have we actually seen the strongest beings in the Travelers Gate universe?

As for a match up, lets go swordplay. With no powers, Yerin (or her master) vs Lan Mandragoran

Will link

12/21/2016 08:22:24 am

1.) Anyone vs. Lan Mandragoran

Lan wins, because he's Lancelot and by definition cannot be defeated in battle. Him losing a pure swordfight is like someone outwitting Batman.

2.) Have we actually seen the strongest beings in the Traveler's Gate universe?

No.

Manuel

12/21/2016 06:50:19 am

Thanks for answering my first question! Here are some more
Northstrider vs the ninecloud princess
Northstrider vs Luminous queen Sha Miara

Will link

12/21/2016 08:27:05 am

Luminous Queen Sha Miara recently came to power over the Ninecloud Court. So those are the same person.

However...

1.) Northstrider vs. the Eight-Man Empire

This would be a huge, destructive conflict with lots of collateral damage, but eventually I think Northstrider would probably win. The EME don't really have the firepower to beat him quickly, so they would be relying on a drawn-out contest, but he would be coming at them as hard and as fast as possible.

2.) Northstrider vs. Sha Miara

Sha Miara wins due to a mismatch of powers. If she knows what his powers are like and how they work, she can shut them down directly.

In a contest of pure force, she would get annihilated.

Rys

12/21/2016 07:13:06 am

Eithan vs sword sage and markurh

Eithan vs nine cloud princess
Eithan vs northstrider
Eithan vs empire girl(why can nobody remeber her name?)

Ninecloud, Northstrider, and Empire girl vs each other

Rys

12/21/2016 07:40:30 am

Also,
Eithan vs BF Emperor

Eithan vs EE Emperor

Eithan vs Dreadgod

Will link

12/21/2016 08:36:34 am

All of these matchups designed to pinpoint Eithan's power level are clever, but they touch on spoilers, since I'm making a little subplot in Blackflame (or I may move it to Book 4 if I don't have room) about no one knowing what Eithan's Path is. To get into specifically how to handle these situations, I'd have to talk about his powers, which would be spoiler-riffic.

So to give you a general sense...

1.) Underlords vs. Underlord+

The Sword Sage and Li Markuth are both roughly two stages above Underlord.

The three entities listed by Suriel as the top of the Cradle food chain are FIVE stages above Underlord, including one big leap (like the difference between Truegold and Underlord, it's only one stage, but it's a big one). The Dreadgods are a threat on THEIR level--and notice that Suriel said the 8-Man Empire, Sha Miara, and Northstrider could save Sacred Valley from them. She didn't say they could destroy the Dreadgods.

The BF Emperor is the one person in the Empire who is a level over Underlord.

The EE Emperor is about his level, although since they're using different magic systems, it's less about stages and more about what they can and can't do to counter one another.

2.) Ninecloud, Northstrider, Eight-Man Empire tournament-style

The two of these matchups involving Northstrider can be read in my response to the question just above this one.

So, Eight-Man Empire versus Sha Miara...

She'd have more difficulty dealing with them as opposed to Northstrider, because they're relying on individual power and a formation that manipulates aura when they fight. In the end, it's roughly even, and it depends on a bunch of variables, but here's the bottom line: if Sha Miara can figure out and break their formation quickly, she wins. If she can't, they're sharing and pooling power, and they will overwhelm her.

Azqa

12/21/2016 07:24:45 am

Okay, so Simon is currently pretty low on the power scale of characters in your worlds. If we gave him, say, 30 years to train and earn the powers in all the current rooms of Valinhall plus whatever rooms he adds, where would he rank then? Would he be up around the Sage level?

Simon isn't necessarily clever and he doesn't seem to have the fire in him to be the most powerful being ever, but he has an immense amount of determination to protect people from known dangers. He works to raise himself to the level of danger that he can see. Kai was a brilliant Traveler, but a horrible teacher. With 30 years of training from Indirial and Valin, he's going to have a great deal more polish to his skills and use of powers.

Not a deathmatch question, but what qualities did Yerin have that made the Sword Sage take her on as a disciple in the first place, and how early in her life did that begin?

Azqa

12/21/2016 08:16:24 am

Also, has this post gotten the most comments of any of your blog posts yet? The poll that had 700+ responses presumably had the most interaction, but voting in a poll is obviously different than writing a comment.

Will link

12/21/2016 08:41:41 am

The release thread for City of Light had a lot of comments, since it was the end of the trilogy, but they didn't pile up as fast as this one did. I may have let too many genie-monkeys out of the worm barrel.

--What qualities did Yerin have that made the Sword Sage take her on as a disciple?

This gets into spoiler territory, because I will be answering that question thoroughly in the series, but suffice it to say that she was born strong. And she demonstrated that at an early age.

--What level of power could Simon earn?

This is kind of a meta answer, but I haven't decided yet.

Totally depends on where I want to take the series. If I go where I've been planning to go, and keep the story relatively grounded but focused on Valinhall and giving Simon a satisfying arc of emotional development and growth, then yeah, probably Sword Sage level.

But there's nothing that stops me from scrapping all those plans and having him ascend beyond his world just like Lindon is trying to ascend beyond Cradle. It's even easier for Simon, since he just needs to figure out how Valin left.

Azqa

12/21/2016 08:54:24 am

This post does seem to have exploded :)

Ooooh, very much looking forward to seeing that question answered about Yerin. You've given some hints in the books already - "He’d been mistreated by his clan, that was true. But he’d never fought for his own life. He’d never clawed his way out of a pile of bodies until he was elbow-deep in blood. He’d never woken to find that his only family was dead…and pushed through that crushing weight to draw his sword anyway." as well as the whole...guest...around her waist. Now I'm curious if that guest and Yerin's history ties in at all to the short story of the Unclean Blade, and I will happily wait and see!

Sword Sage level sounds really good :) The draw is really in how the fights turn out, not necessarily how powerful each side is, anyway. You've already shown that with Lindon - even when he had no real power, his fights were already fun to read. Also, the idea that different series & protagonists would reach different levels of power sounds really good. No need to go the David Eddings route.

Will link

12/21/2016 08:57:45 am

What is the David Eddings route? I seem to remember his different series protagonists having different levels of power.

Azqa

12/21/2016 09:08:54 am

I really don't remember them ending up being any different, because all of his series were effectively the same story. That might just be differences in perception, but Belgarion with the Orb and Sparhawk/Anakha with Bhelliom seemed pretty much identical to me. I never finished his Dreamers series because the first book was too much like the start of his other series.

Adarsh

12/24/2016 08:10:04 am

Wait, when did Valin leave Amalgam?!?!?!?

I thought he just found some artifact that teleported him to Elysium, then he got booted from there to another broken world(still near Amalgam) that he forged into Valinhall.

Five-Tailed Fox

12/21/2016 07:50:27 am

Yo Will,
Metaphysical Great Elders can rip one apart on the molecular level. You said the strongest Cradle character could solo them. Do they have defenses against that?

Also, are Cradle characters stronger than any other iteration.

Will link

12/21/2016 08:44:00 am

Yes, they do have a defense against that. At a certain point, your spirit gets strong enough that your madra gives you essentially complete control over your own body. You can resist forces that would affect you directly.

Also, at that level, they have access to powers other than madra that can fight against the Great Elders.

Are Cradle characters stronger than any other Iteration?

No, but they have the best average growth rate. It's extremely rare for someone of another Iteration to ascend past their starting power scale, but with Cradle it happens reliably 2-3 times per generation.

Michael

12/21/2016 12:06:26 pm

I can't help but notice that there are 2-3 people in the group of Eithan, Yerin, and Lindon.

Ben

12/21/2016 07:03:37 pm

So Cradle is like planet Vegeta? You are my favorite author right now.

Will link

12/22/2016 09:11:21 pm

Ben,

You're my favorite, too. Don't tell the others.

Michael,

My, what a STRANGE coincidence.

Will coming down the Line

12/21/2016 08:25:24 am

Will strongest TG charater you introude in new triology be stronger than EE Emperor?

Will link

12/21/2016 08:44:24 am

I don't know, I haven't decided yet. Depends on where I take the story.

Hurry before WIll Leaves!

12/21/2016 08:28:16 am

Do all Abidan have to have used madra? I mean Simon cant become one.

Will link

12/21/2016 08:44:48 am

Nope. Simon could become one, if circumstances allowed.

Avinash

12/21/2016 12:17:40 pm

Heck if osriel was not confirmed to be from cradle I would have suspected that he was simon
They fell a lot alike to me for some reason even though we hardly know anything about him

Darryl

12/21/2016 06:03:36 pm

........ Simon learning the path of endless swords is a terrifying thought especially considering masked with Steel+Nye essence+ghost armor he'd probably be among the strongest on cradle!

Will link

12/22/2016 09:12:47 pm

Not immediately, Darryl, but he could get there. I'd want to see him with something even crazier than the Path of the Endless Sword, though. Like the Path of the Broken Star, or the Path of Grasping Sky.

WHOOPS, SPOILERS

Simon

12/21/2016 09:35:14 am

Would Simon be fast enough to dodge lightning? Endrosd lightning can't be actual lighninf speed, the same way Goku' blasts are not actual light speed.
Would Simon be that fast? Im assuming not. Bullet time yes but he cant break the sound barrier.

12/21/2016 11:31:15 am

Does valinhall have plumbing?

Will link

12/22/2016 09:13:55 pm

It does not. The pool has a weird organic system that cleans and drains it, and the toilets are haunted and flush waste beyond reality.

The air comes from magic.

Sorry

12/21/2016 12:46:59 pm

Sorry for a question I should know. Its been a while since I eead Elder Empire. How did Estyr and Jorin manage to live so long.I know not all of them had Nakothi hearts and I recall that they were in a deep sleep....

Will link

12/22/2016 09:15:02 pm

Awakened coffins. Keeps them asleep and alive until they're needed.

They've individually lived a few hundred years apiece, thanks to some extremely creative alchemy and investing on the Emperor's part, but they've EXISTED for basically two thousand.

Daniel

12/21/2016 12:52:47 pm

Simeon (at the end of House of Blades) vs. Spider-Man

Pete

12/21/2016 05:44:41 pm

Spidey would lose....
Benson Steel is around Spider-man strength. I think comic Spiderman would win but movie Spiderman is around Benston Steel.
Spidey does not have super speed like Nye esscence. His spidey sense is kind of like Eithan's ability, and Eithan won.
.......
If Spiderman stays back, he would live but could not defeat Simon. If Spiderman gets close, Simon could kill him.
If comic Spider-man, I'm leaning towards Spiderman winning, though still not easy

Will link

12/22/2016 09:16:47 pm

It's hard to tell, and like Pete says, it largely depends on whether or not spider-sense can allow him to react fast enough to stop an essence-boosted attack in the mask.

If it can't, Simon definitely wins.

If it can...

Simon still might win (assuming Spider-Man doesn't have plot armor, as he does in his own comics). Swords are lethal weapons, and webs aren't.

doc mosh

12/21/2016 01:26:09 pm

How come no one has brought up the obvious...

How about the Sword Sage versus Traveler or

Simon versus Anomander Rake

from Malazan

Dan

12/21/2016 03:13:39 pm

How about going full horrible weapon? Anomander Rake vs Jorin Curse-breaker? It would be cool to see a reader's perspective of that nasty blade...

Will link

12/22/2016 09:18:09 pm

Anomander Rake vs. Jorin would be...unpleasant. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that.

That said, Jorin would do better against Anomander than Simon would, but they'd both eventually lose.

I mean, come on. The sword contains Mother Dark and her prison. That's a whole higher power scale.

Confusion

12/21/2016 04:54:15 pm

Elder Empire's Emperor vs all of the incarnations that were sealed in the hanging trees at the beginning of house of blades

Fernando

12/21/2016 05:10:38 pm

EE Emperor is stronger than any Incarnatinon, but if they all attacked at once I would give them a small chance. I mean, he is around the BlackFlame Emperor, is one stage above Underlord. Eithan is an Underlord and I don't see him dying by an attack of Incarnatinos

Corey

12/22/2016 09:03:32 am

I asked this one before. The Emperor takes it. But he also may not kill them. If they are useless to him he will kill them but if they can provide value he will keep them around to use!

dreadpriateroberts

12/21/2016 04:56:19 pm

Simon vs. Max (from the tapestry series)
out of curiosities sake who do you think would be the most even match up from the Cradle vs. simon?

Fernando

12/21/2016 05:08:51 pm

The most even match for Simon is........
Simon vs Lindon....

No just kidding. Probably Yerin. Jai Long. Any low gold to true gold. He would need the mask for an Underlord, though he would most likely run out of his powers before he could deal them in.

Will link

12/22/2016 09:19:44 pm

I agree with Fernando; probably Yerin or Jai Long. Jai Long is stronger in the sacred arts than Yerin is, but his powers are also a worse matchup for Simon's than Yerin's are.

What are those powers? Why, they're clearly explained in BLACKFLAME!

Sean K

12/23/2016 03:22:34 am

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY AND GIVE ME BLACKFLAME!

Lukas

12/21/2016 05:09:19 pm

Simon vs. Kaladin (as we know him now)
I'm betting Simon all the way.

Confusion

12/22/2016 09:55:55 am

The only way Kaladin could win is if he managed to get simon with his shardblade/shardspear or could lay a hand on him to create a lashing. Neither of those are likely to happen while the nye essense is in effect. That said, he can essentially fly, or 'fall upward', which would draw out the fight considerably.

If the fight is taking place in a highstorm, however, things would be more in Kaladins favor. He could regenerate and use stormlight as much as he wanted, and all he'd have to do is wait for Simon's powers to wear off.

Will link

12/22/2016 09:22:28 pm

That's what I'd say too, Confusion.

Kaladin would have to get really creative to land a hit with his Shardblade, since Simon is faster and stronger. I'd say Simon wins at this point, UNLESS (as you point out) the conditions are right for Kaladin to fly. Or unless he gets more powerful and he can start Lashing things without touching them.

Then again, if Simon doesn't know what a Shardblade does, he might make the mistake of trying to take a hit on stone-enhanced skin. At which point the Shardblade would pass through his flesh, either killing his limb or killing him.

However, I doubt he would do that. Nobody practices taking sword strikes on their bare skin, not even people that can do it.

Darryl

12/21/2016 05:53:31 pm

I noticed you never said we have to have E read the book pertaining to the character soooo...... How about post black flame Simon versus post soulsmith Yerin? Hehehe

Wwwhhat???

12/21/2016 06:29:16 pm

Post-blackflame Simon? You mean....I dont know what you mean.
House of Blades Simon vs Iron Yerin.

Simon wins..unless he doesn't have nye esscence. Then Yerin might win

Darryl

12/21/2016 07:17:04 pm

Lmao sorry I recently reread all the books so I put the wrong character. I meant post blackflame London!!! Oops

Fernando

12/22/2016 07:48:32 am

In that case, Yerin easily wins. She is still a higher level than him.

Will link

12/22/2016 09:23:16 pm

1.) Post-Blackflame Lindon vs. Post-Soulsmith Yerin

Yerin does win.

...but not as easily as you might expect.

Darryl

12/21/2016 09:11:27 pm

Let's try this again...I noticed you never said we have to have read the book pertaining to the character soooo...... How about post blackflame Lindon versus post soulsmith Yerin? Hehehe
(Put the wrong character name from the wrong story the first time lol oops)

Fernando

12/22/2016 08:15:16 am

Yerin wins. She is still higher stages. A lowgold will lose to a highgold, unless you cheat I guess.
Lindon has won thanks to people underestimating him, thinking he is done for. His core underoing mitosis helped him and now his new Iron body saved him, as well as those Spear Bindings he found.
The only person who I see as being able to defeat people on a higher level then them is Eithan as he has his mental ability. I can see him competing with the Sword Sage and Li Markuth. I don't see him comepeting with the top of Cradle's food chain though.

Darryl

12/22/2016 08:21:23 am

You can't rightfully say that though. No one has read blackflame so we have no idea what level Lindon is at the end. If he keeps up with the second book and progresses 2 stages in blackflame then he would be a low gold. But I'm guessing he'll be at least high gold by the end because his normal fights are against someone much stronger and the story will more than likely revolve around his upcoming fight with a high gold prior to spear so possibly true gold/underlord. Either way Lindon post blackflame should be a decent match for post soulsmith Yerin

Will link

12/22/2016 09:24:57 pm

SPOILERS, I GUESS

(Although if you're this deep into these comments, you've already been spoiled.)

...at the end of Blackflame, Yerin could still beat Lindon in a straight-up fight.

But it would actually BE a fight.

Easily Amused Eldrazi link

12/21/2016 09:24:30 pm

I love that you went ahead and made a whole blog post just for this. Thank you! Now, on to the fun stuff.
Kinda don't want to ask, but: Pre-Mending Nicol Bolas vs. Suriel
Morgoth ( Sauron's boss from LOTR) vs. Suriel
Deepstrider vs. Kresimir (from the Powder Mage books)
Valin (Incarnation and pre-incarnation) vs the Sword Sage
Perfect Cell vs. Sword Sage
Hit (DBS) vs Eithan

Side note on DBS SSJ Blue and Future Trunks: As best I can tell, SSJ Blue is so good because it doesn't waste nearly as much power as their other forms- in essence, not only is it a step up, it's more efficient, and doesn't output as much into the environment without the user's direction. With regards to Future Trunks, he was able to fight alongside SSJ Blue-level characters because a lot of the time, they were controlling themselves that well (and because Future Trunks is a step ahead of where Goku was at that stage, as far as power is concerned. His SSJ2 was on par with Goku's SSJ3).

Ronin Saga??

12/22/2016 05:41:55 am

Couldn't have said it better on the DBS stuff.. Of course it's all speculation lol Toriyama tends to just do whatever he wants at times so who knows..

Where do you think the Ronin from Matt Wolf's The Ronin Saga stack up against Will's characters? Kail in particular.

Sarah

12/22/2016 07:59:53 am

I think Hit would win against Eithan as he is equal to Goku, who is stronger than Northstrider level. I'm sure Northstrider could kill Eithan as he is five stages higher than Underlord (got the info from the comments).

Perfect Cell vs Sword Sage is harder as the DBZ power scale is sometimes changing. He is around Super Sayian 2 level. The Sword Sage might win this if he went all out quickly and had a way of destroying Cell to stop him from regenerating. If not, Cell would win.

Valin vs Sword Sage is easier to anwser. Based on the powerscale, Incarnations are weaker than the BlackFlame Emperor, who is one stage under the Sword Sage. Even with a Valinhall Incarnatinon, the Sword Sage would still win.

Will link

12/22/2016 09:33:19 pm

Thanks Eldrazi! I thought it was a fun idea, and it's cool that people are enjoying it! I'm definitely going to use some of these as short stories.

Sarah nailed it, by the way. I'm going to let her answers stand and just address what she didn't:

1.) Pre-Mending Nicol Bolas vs. Suriel

This is, I think, the best matchup for Suriel on this thread so far. Scion from Worm was another good one, but Scion is a projection of another, more powerful being, and is thus limited in some ways. Nicol Bolas is that being.

And some of the people that have been matched up against Suriel are omnipotent, which...sure, anyone is going to lose against God in a matchup.

They counter each other well. Planeswalking is balanced out by shifting through the Way, clockworking is balanced by her ability to restore and stabilize time, their mental abilities would be on par, they're basically both indestructible for the same reasons...

I think, in the end, it would come down to Bolas having to draw on mana from different planes. As powerful as he is, he's still bound by that basic rule of magic: drawing power from land. Suriel doesn't have to; she draws on the Way, which is between worlds, and thus equally accessible everywhere.

So if this battle left a world, which I think by definition it would have to, Suriel could probably cut him off from his sources of power and eventually exhaust him.

Good question, though!

2.) Morgoth vs. Suriel

I've answered this somewhere, but I think Morgoth gets it by virtue of having been around at the creation of the universe, which Suriel wasn't. I assume he knows some sort of primordial magic beyond Suriel's understanding.

3.) Northstrider vs. Kresimir

I don't know, I don't think the extent of Kresimir's power was ever explored. That trilogy ended with a lot of my questions unanswered, I can tell you that.

But based on the general level of power mages and gods demonstrate in the story, Northstrider takes it easily.

Side Note: This is a good answer, but I have no reason to believe the showrunners have put as much thought into it as you have.

Easily Amused Eldrazi link

1/13/2017 08:39:03 pm

Was watching Hellsing Ultimate recently, and was wondering something: What level would pre-schrodinger Alucard stack up to on Cradle? It seems (at least to me) that he might have a shot at least against an Underlord, perhaps even against the higher-ups (though not against the Abidan of course. Maybe post-schrodinger, given infinite possibilities).

Easily Amused Eldrazi link

1/15/2017 04:41:11 pm

Whoops, didn't see that someone had already brought this up. Sorry! Am still curious to see where exactly he stands

Ramon

12/22/2016 08:25:34 am

Which is stronger, Elysia or Ragnurus.
We know Valinhall is #1

Will link

12/22/2016 09:34:31 pm

I don't know how to do a battle of one place against another. In a war, obviously Elysia would win, because Ragnarus is uninhabited (OR IS IT?) and Elysia has a ton of soldiers.

But I will tell you that, when I'm writing the books, I think of Valinhall, Ragnarus, and Elysia all on the same tier.

Ramon

12/22/2016 08:26:05 am

Which is stronger, Elysia or Ragnurus.
We know Valinhall is #1

John Wick

12/22/2016 09:08:05 am

Could Benson Steel overpower: Chimp, Grizzly Bear, Gorilla, Tiger?

What about an Iron body?

John Wick Chapter 2

12/22/2016 09:32:33 am

1. Iron body including Enforcer Techniques for clarification

2. We will exclude Lord Harambe out of this one as it wouldn't be fair

Will link

12/22/2016 09:40:08 pm

Welcome back, MISTAH WICK. Your latest trailer got me real hyped.

1.) Steel

Chimp = yes.
Grizzly bear = depends. A bear doesn't exert force the same way we do. But yes.
Gorilla = if you draw deeply enough, yes.
Tiger = similar answer to bear. You're not going to arm-wrestle a tiger, but you could pick one up and throw it.

2.) Iron body

Depends. If you're at Iron level, you'd be stronger than a chimpanzee, which you certainly weren't before. And you could hit with greater force than a bear, but lifting one would be difficult unless you're just that strong already or are using an Enforcer technique. You could beat a tiger physically, with skill, but I don't know that you'd want to just sit and brawl with one (same for the bear, really). A gorilla, probably not. Again, you could probably kill one with your fists--like using a movement technique to get up behind it and then an Enforced attack to punch through its spine--but just don't get into a fistfight with a gorilla at Iron.

At Gold sure, yeah, go nuts.

3.) Harambe

Obviously not. No amount of Iron or steel can prepare you for Lord Harambe's transcendent glory.

Harambe Speaks

12/22/2016 09:34:21 am

Yo....Cory from Cory in the House v.s. Harambe!

P.S. Remeber whenCory learns Super Sayian 9000 and takes on Donald Trump

Simon

12/22/2016 09:36:00 am

Oh yeah. I remember. That was when the epic ost "Up Like Trump" started playing. Though I think the animation was a little bad at that one part where Cory is teleported into the black hole and is forced to destroy half of the universe in order to escape.
If you guys haven't, check out season 31.
The opening shows Cory bombing the Presidential Election. Crazy theories are saying that Cory will summon Aizen from the fifth dimension finally so we can see the epic showdown between Aizen and Cory's pet cat.

Fernando

12/22/2016 09:37:05 am

I think that Cory's cat Timbo is more than a match for Aizen. It will be a lame fight. Remember when Timbo released his Skyjacker technique? Yeah, I don't see Aizen countering that. I think it would be better if Cory summoned Madara Uchiha. Now that would be one godly fight.
Or maybe even Suriel:)

Will link

12/22/2016 09:41:12 pm

These memes are getting too dank for my blood. I'm out.

Harambe Speaks

12/22/2016 09:37:48 am

Bro stfu. Aizen is a shinigami. Only Cory is able to see shinigami. There is no way Timbo will stomp Aizen. The only way for Timbo to win is if Cory transplated his Rinnegan to Timbo.

Simon

12/22/2016 09:38:34 am

Cory cannot summon other beings anymore. The theory is debunked already by FilmTheorists. It occured when Gwendolyn was killed by Kneco and Cory awakened his Blue-Lightning cloak and wielded the epic glowing blue chains which he used to hang Kneco. I think the theory is crap.

Kade

12/22/2016 09:39:55 am

Woah guys calm down. They're all just theories. I love theorizing as much as everyone, but we will just have to wait and see for next Thursday. In the meantime, I think Cory will finally mature past the copper stage and be able to cycle Xiath Energy. At that point he might stand a chance to defeat Superman.

Simon

12/22/2016 09:40:57 am

How did we get here again?

Anyways,when Cory summoned Superman Prime he quickly banished him into his basement. Cory was all like, "no son" and snapped his fingers. Even Superman Prime is too much for Cory right now. Maybe in a couple more seasons he will be able to fight him.

Confusion

12/22/2016 10:02:55 am

Northstrider vs Kelerac, or Northstrider vs high ranking elders

John Wick

12/22/2016 10:08:50 am

Will has said that the three strongest Cradle characters can defeat the Great Elders. Now, I'm not sure if they could defeat the unsealed Elders but I'm assuming yes. They are immune to the Elders metaphysical attack; otherwise they would have been torn apart on the molecular level.
So Northstrider wins, as well as Eight Man Empire and Princess Shaa Miara.

Will link

12/22/2016 09:43:15 pm

Unsealed Elders no, simply due to the nature of the fight. At that point it's not a power level thing. Using sacred arts to fight unsealed Elders is, by and large, like trying to use your fists to fight a virus.

But sealed Great Elders (like the ones the Emperor dealt with)...yeah, easily.

Lightsyde link

12/22/2016 01:48:30 pm

This is my favourite blog since 'Ancestors of Cradle'!! Fun reading!!!

How about
Grom (The Archmage of Menzoberanzan) vs Elder Whisper

Ryu Hayabusa (from Ninja Gaiden 2) vs Yerin?

Goku (ignoring anything past the Main Buu Saga) vs Northstrider?

Is there anyone in the Cradle world (not the universe itself but the planet) that can take one Majin-Buu or Majin-Vegeta?

Evangeline Kitty McDowell (from UQ Holder) vs Luminous Queen Sha Maria?

Touta Konoe (UQ Holder) vs Yerin

Esdeath (Akame ga kill) vs Li Markuth

More to come later =(^-^)=

Will link

12/22/2016 07:52:50 pm

This thread has gotten so long! It's been awesome, but now I'm having trouble keeping track of it all!

1.) Grom vs. Elder Whisper

I'd like to give it to Whisper because of the flexibility of madra vs. Vancian magic, which relies on prepared and memorized spells and material components. That said, I'd think it would depend on where they fought. Elder Whisper relies on light aura, and Menzoberranzan is in the Underdark. There is some bioluminescence for decoration, but the dark elves primarily rely on infravision to see. No light aura, and Elder Whisper's powers are more limited. Plus, Grom can attack directly, which Elder Whisper essentially can't. Grom gets it.

2.) Ninja Gaiden 2 Ryu Hayabusa vs. Yerin

I have to say I didn't play 2; I played 1, and I played Dead or Alive, but not 2. So if the specifics of what I say are wrong, forgive me.

I'd think Yerin would get it because she's from a magic system with more magic. Everything she does is infused with madra--she's strengthened by madra, throwing blades of madra, using the power of an opponent's blades against them.

Ryu has powers of his own, as well as a great deal of training, but for the most part he's swinging regular steel weapons. Yerin beats him.

3.) SS3 Goku vs. Northstrider

This is roughly the level of power I'm looking at for Northstrider. When he powers up, the world shakes for miles around. That sort of thing.

(Not blowing up planets, but they could do that in the Saiyan Saga, so I'm just kind of pretending DBZ characters can't do that.)

I'd think Goku would win, because Northstrider can't teleport or use ki blasts (unless between now and my introduction of the character I decide to give him that ability). In a straight punch-out, they'd be comparable.

4.) Majin Buu or Majin Vegeta

Yes.

5.) Evangeline vs. Sha Miara

UQ Holder Evangeline rather than Negima Evangeline, huh? Not that in her particular case it matters much, that's just interesting.

Evangeline has to win because she's immortal and Sha Miara isn't. In terms of magical firepower, I'd give it to Sha Miara, but I don't know that Evangeline has ever gone 100% all-out. Still a similar level.

6.) Touta Konoe vs. Yerin

Same thing: Touta wins because he can't be killed. So he basically can't lose a death match.

I'm also not fully clear on what his powers are, but the White Light of Mars can presumably disperse Yerin's Striker and Ruler techniques (though not her Enforcer techniques, which I'd guess would work more similar to chi in the Negima universe). Even if you say that dying once disqualifies him, Touta probably wins.

7.) Esdeath vs. Li Markuth

Esdeath can freeze *time itself,* which is pretty OP, but I think Li Markuth still wins. He's superhuman and has access to a broader variety of techniques.

12/22/2016 03:19:41 pm

Kung Fu Panda Po vs Lindon

Will link

12/22/2016 09:44:08 pm

Kung Fu Panda hands-down. He's the Dragon Warrior, man. He knows the Wu Shi Finger Hold.

Jono

12/22/2016 05:18:06 pm

Simon, no mask, vs. Sage Lycrart

Will link

12/22/2016 09:45:01 pm

Did you make that character up?

Jono

12/23/2016 01:47:04 am

No. From the Sage Trilogy by Stephanie Holder.

Jacob

12/22/2016 07:13:14 pm

Don't know if you've read Chronicles of the Black Gate, but...

-- Kethe vs. Yerin

-- Magister Audsley vs. Meia

And from the Six of Crows series...

-- Inej vs. Shera

-- Kaz Brekker vs. Calder Marten

Will link

12/22/2016 09:46:55 pm

I have not read Chronicles of the Black Gate, so...someone else?

As for Six of Crows, I picked that up like two days ago, so I haven't even started it. Give me the chance to read it first!

Peter

12/25/2016 05:37:08 pm

Pretty sure Kethe would be destroyed completely most likely from a distance could be wrong though if she gets a lot stronger in the third book but I haven't finished it yet so unless she gets a major boost in power she loses

Corey

12/23/2016 06:07:34 am

Simon vs. Deadpool.

Mostly because I think it'd be funny to see what goes through Simons and Caelas minds as they are fighting a complete maniac, who also regenerates.

THE FLEAAAA

12/23/2016 06:45:35 am

The Flea's Wing from the Unhewn Throne trilogy vs. a standard group of Enosh Traveler's

Adarsh

12/25/2016 04:50:49 pm

The Flea, obviously. I mean, he is the Flea. He's kinda like the Batman of the Unhewn throne trilogy.

Will link

12/26/2016 06:51:11 pm

The Flea, of course.

He's the Flea.

Ben

12/23/2016 09:31:59 am

What level would Fei from Xenogears be at in the cradle universe? Could he beat Yerin?

Azqa

12/23/2016 12:02:37 pm

Since we're talking about power scale, here's a question that I suspect will be answered with "It's coming in future books, be patient!"

Unsouled
Copper
Iron
Jade
Lowgold
Highgold
Truegold
Underlord

Lindon finds badges of other materials - "The first row contained a badge each of copper, iron, jade, and gold. That much he expected. But the second row moved from halfsilver to goldsteel to materials he couldn't identify. One of them was a deep, fiery red, and the other a blue so rich it was like a Forged slice of the sky."

Does the description of the power scale change at Underlord, or is that one term an aberration? Will we see people at Halfsilver / Goldsteel level, or is Underlord simply represented by one of those?

Isaac Xander

12/23/2016 08:32:12 pm

Eithan vs a theoretical Eithan clone.
Personally, I think they'd just get coffee and laugh at stupid jokes.

Jade level Lindon vs ... Yerin's belt
(If that's too easy for Lindon then make it post soulsmith Lindon)

Suriel vs Suriel's presence

PS. I expect a back story on the blood aspect remenant masquerading as Yerin's belt someone soon

Edit

12/23/2016 08:34:30 pm

Sometime soon*

Arenwyn

12/24/2016 12:13:00 am

Two combatants of equal skill and power, one guided by one of Simon's dolls, the other by Suriel's presence?

Harlequin

12/24/2016 07:13:56 am

The Old Man who was the Founder of Ragnarus mentioned various times historically vs. Valin? Always wondered did Valin travel across the desert an visit the other large foreign nations, or did he travel through Ragnarus? I remember he did once serve the royal family, or at least one of the Queens.

Jessiah

12/24/2016 05:53:53 pm

Suriel vs Franklin Richards

Abidan Court vs Ivory Kings(Beyonder Kings Marvel Comics)

Celestial Race vs Abidan Court

Me!!

12/24/2016 06:20:01 pm

Eithan versus you.

jim

12/24/2016 08:51:39 pm

Have you read the "dungeon born" book? What do you think?

Also, Dr. Who vs Suriel

James G

12/24/2016 11:16:16 pm

1. Suriel vs. Q (Star Trek)
2. Simon vs. Tarrasque(D&D)
3. Yerin vs. Liu Kang(Mortal Kombat)
4. Cloud Strife(Final Fantasy VII) vs. Simon
5. Psylocke vs. Yerin
6. River(Firefly) vs. Yerin

Madeline

12/25/2016 04:02:42 am

The people who have been asking how strong Simon would eventually become in the grand scheme of things have been making me think that it would actually be really interesting to see the Cradle universe from the perspective of a character that isn't from Cradle eventually. Especially given how broad the outside world's powers seem to be, compared to the relatively narrow set of powers Travellers have. So it would be interesting to see Simon go beyond the Traveller's Gate world (how does the limitation of Valinhall's chains interact with the seemingly unlimited power in the outside universe?)

Will link

12/26/2016 07:21:20 am

Mild spoiler alert, but if you're this deep into this thread and you still care about spoilers...RIP you.

Eventually, we'll get to see how the Cradle magic system stacks up against others.

Also, Valin gathered the Valinhall powers essentially by running around outside.

Madeline

12/28/2016 01:03:25 pm

This does not diminish my desire to see Simon leave the Traveller's Gate world.

Tom

12/25/2016 06:42:22 am

I'm guessing spoilerish ones like Post Soulsmith Kelsa vs Wei clan Patriarch are a no go, given we not only do not know if the Wei clan exists at all anymore, but because this is basically asking if Kelsa after noticing what's going on with Lindon also decides to go adventuring outside/etc.

I was quite disappointed at Kelsa disappearing from the story given she was probably my favorite Unsouled character :p

So, Elder Whisper (not under seals) vs Li Markuth. My guess is it's a case of "neither can kill the other" but I might be wrong.

Will link

12/26/2016 07:19:34 am

Early on in development, I had considered having Kelsa traveling with Lindon, and Yerin's character being a guy. But I couldn't justify Kelsa's presence, really, and I thought Yerin worked better as a woman. So Kelsa got left behind.

That's...certainly not the last we'll see of her, though. Spoilers.

1.) Elder Whisper vs. Li Markuth

Elder Whisper might be able to hide and run, if the terms of the battle allow such a thing. But Li Markuth very well might be able to catch him, and if he can, then Li Markuth wins it. He's a level above Whisper.

Sean K

12/26/2016 07:21:29 am

Wait, so Elder Whisper is a level above Underlord?!! That is CRAZY AWESOME!

He is probably the reason the Wei Clan wont be destroyed by the Heavens Glory school!

Will link

12/28/2016 09:38:44 am

No no, Whisper isn't THAT strong. He's several levels under Li Markuth, it's just that Markuth would be relying solely on the brute force of his spiritual senses to find Whisper, whereas Whisper has hundreds of years of experience as an illusionist for running and hiding.

He is, however, by far the strongest active being in Sacred Valley.

Jeremiah (for April)

12/25/2016 12:30:16 pm

Lucan, meia, Shera as a team vs the Lord Ruler

Will link

12/26/2016 07:16:55 am

Well, that's an awesome question.

If they get time to prepare, like the Mistborn crew did, then I think they could take it. The Reader powers are flexible enough that they could create virtually any tool they want or need, given time and resources.

But if they're thrown onto a big stone arena to fight with the Lord Ruler, they don't have a chance. Killers and Kings Shera would make it more even, with two Soulbound Vessels, but the Lord Ruler's powers are more flexible. I think he overwhelms them.

April

12/28/2016 12:54:16 pm

I was also thinking that Lucan's abilities as a reader would give them some insight to the source of the Lord Ruler's power. Knowing his weakness will go a long way toward giving them a shot at winning that fight.

Peter B

12/25/2016 04:49:49 pm

Hui Yue from Blue Phoenix vs Eithan
I'm curious how some of your characters match up to others in the genre and if you read other American authors who do the same genre as cradle

Will link

12/26/2016 07:14:55 am

Nothing against the author whatsoever, but I personally didn't get very far into Blue Phoenix. I just wasn't that interested.

Adarsh

12/25/2016 04:52:44 pm

So how would Mithra stand up to a Shardblade?

What about a regular Tartarus Steel blade?

And is there any relation between calling Bensons power "Steel" and "Iron" bodies?

Will link

12/26/2016 07:13:07 am

1.) That's the question, isn't it? I've been conducting these matches on the assumption that my versions of indestructible swords stand up against everyone else's, but if they don't, then Simon's going to have a bad time against a Shardbearer.

So in order to keep these matches as balanced as possible, I'm just going to assume that Tartarus steel swords match up against swords made of cuendillar, Valyrian steel, and whatever Shardblades are made of.

2.) Any relation between the terms? No. They're both hard, malleable materials used to make weapons.

Metatron58

12/27/2016 02:27:09 pm

Shardblades appear to be made of the spren which I believe are thoughts or ideas given physical or tangible form. It's weird but reading about the cosmere and how the universe is divided between different realms, physical, spiritual, and cognitive realms with spren originating from shadesmar the cognitive realm I think this is a reasonable theory.

No I have no idea how that would match up against "unbreakable" materials. I just wanted to comment on what I think the shardblades are technically made of.

Dyslexic Satan

12/25/2016 08:43:26 pm

The cthaeh from the king killer chronicles vs the entire world of Cradle

*cthaeh is given 500 years to prepare and sets events in motion but cannot start violence until 490
*Cradle does not know Cthaeh is there to kill them until it has been in world for 500 years
*Abidan are not involved

Avinash

12/26/2016 02:49:39 am

under those conditions

Everyone in Cradle dies.

Will link

12/26/2016 07:08:59 am

Those are some harsh conditions.

The only advantage Cradle has at this point is that there ARE individuals capable of seeing and manipulating the future. I mean, Elder Whisper already demonstrated the capacity to catch glimpses of the future, and he's pretty low on the overall power scale.

This type of scenario is interesting enough that I was already considering it for the distant future, actually (not the cthaeh, obviously, but some other malicious oracle entity). But if I did, their objective wouldn't be to depopulate Cradle.

Because here's the problem: the cthaeh WOULD be detected before 500 years are up. Some of the people on the top end of the scale would go "Who's that messing with the future?" and go find it to blow it up.

And if it started depopulating Cradle, the Abidan WOULD get involved. I mean, heck, the Abidan are pretty spot-on about any foreign threat messing with Cradle's fate. There's a snake in the nursery; the adults aren't going to ignore it.

HOWEVER, given your conditions...

...it gets pretty interesting.

The first thing the cthaeh is going to realize is that it isn't the only fate-manipulating individual around, and that the others have much greater destructive power. So it's going to have multiple layers of misdirection around it: a proxy oracle to take the blame, a decoy tree, some way to mask its touch on fate, and it would probably limit itself to a very subtle, long-term influence to avoid getting caught.

Then it would make a list of these other precognitive threats and make sure that whatever it did destroyed them first. If it can be the only entity capable of manipulating fate, it wins.

The advantage there is that, while there are millions if not billions (population of Cradle is huge) of sacred artists in Cradle with the ability to see hints of fate, there are only a handful capable of manipulating it. And if the cthaeh can kill them, or even most of them, its chances of success increase significantly.

But it's still playing with fire, because while it is making its own preparations, the native oracles are laying their plans as well. Plus, due to the nature of Cradle's magic system, new threats to the cthaeh can pop up anytime, so it has to account for POTENTIAL precognitives as well.

I think it would probably, in order to mask its own influence and still have the most destructive impact possible, start leading psychotic and murderous individuals to sources of great power. It might even start its own cult around itself, dedicated to killing readers of fate. It would certainly provoke the Dreadgods, leading them to go on four separate destructive rampages, and probably wake as many of the other ancient threats as it could.

There are things buried in Cradle that can affect the global climate, swarms of monsters that multiply endlessly, weapons that detonate living beings directly, curses that make innocents into killers...

All that said, I have difficulty envisioning a scenario in which the cthaeh is able to FULLY destroy Cradle.

In the end, it can't act too directly or it risks discovery, and new threats to its existence can pop up any day. And it's an individual, while Cradle is a massive planet with trillions of people, each of whom are POTENTIALLY capable of growing to the degree that they can threaten the tree.

I think it could easily destroy all civilization and cause thousands of Paths to be forgotten, erasing hundreds of legacies and killing billions of sacred artists. It turns the whole planet into an inhospitable post-apocalyptic wasteland in which only the most hardy can eke out a living.

But eventually, someone is going to kill it.

Jono

12/26/2016 04:51:08 pm

However, that only works if you go with Kvothe's belief of the abilities of the Cthaeth. If you were to agree with Bast's opinions, Cradle has no chance as the Cthaeth will have already predicted all this and everything that may come of it, and all counters to its schemes, thus meaning that the Cradle inhabitants working to stop it are, in fact, furthering its goals.

Will link

12/26/2016 06:50:21 pm

Sure, except that it's up against similar beings, so assuming that they're equal is a stalemate.

"It predicted you'd predict it, so it was prepared for your prediction, but you predicted that prediction and prepared a prediction of your own..."

Stalemate.

Like a lot of these matchups, you have to assume a reasonably equal scale.

Tom

12/27/2016 03:20:09 pm

Huh. Currently reading Elder Empire, and Yerin is much, much weaker than I thought if she loses against Simon but Simon loses against Meria/Urzaia.

Everything I have seen of the latter had given me the impression of being at best Iron level, as they just didn't show the speed, support and damage ability that even those do, much less Yerin.

I guess it's possible it changes in the second book of both series, but it just seems I vastly overstimated Yerin.

Will link

12/27/2016 11:09:49 pm

A large part of it is a question of the matchup. If Simon used ghost armor and Nye essence all-out, then he's going to take her Striker and Ruler abilities on the armor, move slightly faster, and hit slightly harder. So he's more likely to win.

Whereas Yerin versus Urzaia or Meia, what are they going to do against the Endless Sword?

There's also the fact that Yerin's Iron body is established in Soulsmith to start out somewhat weaker but scale better with advancement. She's eventually going to get stronger and faster on her own than Simon in the mask drawing on everything, she's just not there yet.

Hazy Days

12/27/2016 09:10:44 pm

New match up. Fire vs fire. The original Naraka Incarnation vs Gehirn Schlechtes, the Hassebrand from the Manifest Delusions series. Seems like this would be a close match.

Andrew Luscomb

12/28/2016 10:12:32 am

Kai vs rinnegan madara but madara killed one of the dolls and kai has all of his powers aithout the curse from ragnarus

Will link

12/30/2016 09:20:44 pm

I'm not entirely sure what Rinnegan Madara CAN'T do.

However, assuming reasonable limitations on his powers (i.e. he's not going to tear apart dimensions or warp time or anything) I think Kai gets it.

Unlike Simon or many of my characters, Kai is going to go straight for the kill immediately, since Madara killed one of his dolls. And Kai can teleport, break spells, resist magic, and render himself immune to mental manipulation.

So I assume that he can blast through Madara's techniques for the second it would take to decapitate Madara with a Dragon's Fang.

...but again, the Rinnegan's powers are broad and poorly defined, so maybe Madara can reverse death or will Kai dead on the spot or some other nonsense.

April

12/28/2016 12:39:48 pm

Shuffles vs. Elysian hummingbird

Hazy Days

12/29/2016 11:13:51 am

Yes! This is a fight we need to see. Match of the century. Shuffles would own that bird!

Will link

12/30/2016 09:21:25 pm

It's like a rap battle between Johnny Cash and a really creepy James Earl Jones.

stephen

12/28/2016 06:36:51 pm

The tick versus Eithan
Arthur versus lindon

Will link

12/30/2016 09:21:48 pm

No one defeats the Tick. He is justice.

Max

12/29/2016 06:00:57 am

Probably way too late, and you might not have read the series but...

Lindon (Iron) vs King Henry Price (King Henry Tapes by Richard Raley)

Both have 3 days to plan and a base knowledge of each others magic system

Will link

12/30/2016 09:23:00 pm

I am going to have to stop responding to these soon, or I'll be answering Deathmatch questions until the universe dies of entropy, but this one's easy: I haven't read the series. Never heard of it.

So...anybody else?

Emily

12/29/2016 11:40:37 am

Hope I'm not to late since I saw this thread late but I really want to see
Lucan, meia, Shera Vs Simon and two other valinhall travelers (regular travelers, not Kai or valin level)

Also who would be a good match up for Valin cradle wise, I have trouble knowing where his power is on the cradle scale

Will link

12/30/2016 09:32:51 pm

1.) Lucan, Meia, and Shera vs. Simon, Elaina, and Andra

Hmmm...

I think the Gardeners have the advantage if they have time to plan and it's more than just a "run out there and fight RIGHT NOW" battle. If they have to face three Valinhall Traveler's head-on immediately without preparation or anything to use in their surroundings, I don't see how they could overcome the advantage in strength and speed.

The most even matchup would probably be sealing both teams in a small town for three days, by which time the team with the most surviving fighters will be declared the winner. A tie results in being tossed into a ring and made to fight straight-up.

This gives a chance for Lucan's Reading to come into play, both in tracking the opponents down and preparing weapons or other items. He finds them, Shera goes in to kill them, and Meia fights to cover their retreat.

...in the meantime, Simon and the others are going to be using the powers of their advisors (Korr senses sources of danger, Caela senses movement, and Andra's advisor--whose name is escaping me and I'm too tired to look it up--has a perfect spatial memory) to find their opponents and try to trap them into a battle.

The advantage the Valinhall Travelers have is that they're very difficult to surprise.

The Gardeners have the advantage of being perfectly willing and trained to kill people unaware.

In that scenario, I think Shera and her team get it unless Simon-and-company get lucky.

2.) Who would be a good matchup for Valin?

I have trouble matching the Cradle power scale to other realities too, because the Cradle scale only works relative to its own magic system.

I have some minor characters who might be a good matchup for Valin, but they won't be introduced until Blackflame (or possibly the next book, depending on where I end up). So...spoilers!

April

1/2/2017 11:28:51 pm

I think Andra's advisor is Manyu, though I would have to go back and check to be sure.

I missed this reply until today, but this sparks lots of questions. First, I'm glad to finally know what "reading the wind" is. Makes sense.

What would the Eldest think about this sort of battle? Would he be willing and or able to support his team? I know that his advice isn't directly combat related, but in terms of scouting and preparation it seems he would be useful, especially if there was a prize to be earned for his house.

Which leads me to the next quedtion. Does he (the eldest) have any knowledge of the Abidan? How much does he know of the larger universe?

Is there anyone in Amalgam other than Valin that knows there are other worlds?

Empty

12/29/2016 06:22:16 pm

Traveler's gate and Cradle exist in the same story universe or is that just for the sake of this blog post?

Will link

12/30/2016 09:33:36 pm

They do.

But the degree to which they do is up for debate.

Kobin

1/27/2017 09:34:19 am

What would happen if Valinhall got a hold of the spear from the end of SoulSmith?

Asterion

12/30/2016 04:34:33 am

It was a little hard trying to get fair, but interesting match ups. Lets see how I did:
1) Indirial (Pre Incarnation) VS Dalinar Kholin (Full shards, pre Bondsmith) Let's assume the sword cancel out each other's invincibility
2) Simon (post CoL) VS Hercules (Fate/Stay Night: UBW)
3) Kai (with Smoke and Otoku) VS Kakashi (With Mangekyu sharingan)

Will link

12/30/2016 09:45:09 pm

1.) Indirial vs. Dalinar Kholin

I'm glad you said pre-Bondsmith, because I would have had to speculate about the exact nature of a Bondsmith's powers. I'm looking forward to Oathbringer showing me the details.

With full Shards, it becomes an interesting match. The Plate equalizes the gap between their strength and speed (or at least closes the gap) and Dalinar is armored, while Indirial isn't.

It would become a match of Indirial trying to chip away at the Shardplate and break it while using Korr's warnings to dodge the Shardblade. At the same time, if the match lasts TOO long, Indirial is going to run out of powers and/or his chains are going to grow out of control.

I think this one could go either way. I give the edge to Dalinar, because Shardplate lasts longer in a fight than Valinhall powers do.

2.) Simon vs. Berserker Hercules

Man, these are good matchups! They're making me think.

My instinct is to give it to Berserker because he's a relentless force of nature who is strong, fast, skilled, and has thirteen lives to deal with.

But Simon in the mask could keep up with him physically, so it becomes a question of how long it takes him to deal thirteen killing blows. And I'm not sure...

...but I very much doubt Simon could do it before Berserker kills him. Even running just on muscle memory and instinct, without the skills and experience of a warrior, Berserker is still going to adapt to his opponent enough to land some hits.

Simon could probably take one hit from Berserker in the mask with steel and stone going. Maybe even two or three. But if they trade evenly, by ten hits Simon's body is going to be a skin bag filled with blood and powdered bones while Berserker will be perfectly healthy with three lives left.

So yeah, I'd put my money on Berserker in the end. But it's a very cool matchup!

And now you've got me thinking about Traveler's Gate fights with UBW animation. Mmmmmmmmmmm.

3.) Kai vs. Kakashi

I see what you did there.

Another close one, and another one where they're more or less able to cancel out each other's powers. They can both teleport short distances, can both sense the other's next move, and can both hit hard enough to kill the other.

Coin toss. I honestly don't know.

My instinct is to give it to Kai because it's a straight-up fight, but there's something deep in my soul that resists the idea of Kakashi losing.

I like to think they'd end up friends instead.

Asterion

1/1/2017 10:47:05 pm

Hahaha I think Kakashi and Kai can trade tips on how to get a student to call you his sensei but not teach him a damn thing. Hilariously enough I think that would make Indirial the Jiraiya in this comparison. Who knew he was so perverted? I also thought Kai had the advantage here.

Traveler's Gate with UBW animation would be epic. Let's hope you have some fans at Ufotable reading this. Dalinar VS Indirial would be an especially exciting scene (HINT HINT). I love Simon too much to see him butchered in brutal Olympian fashion.

Will link

12/30/2016 09:57:20 pm

I'm not sure if anyone will see this, because it's not a reply to anything, but these matchups with Bleach and Naruto characters have gotten me thinking about my feelings toward the two series.

Once upon a time, I loved them equally. And toward the end of their series, they both went completely off-the-rails crazy in a way that made me wonder what sort of pills the authors were taking and if someone should perhaps call the authorities to check on them.

(Although the Naruto epilogue and the character moments in Boruto have had some very cool elements.)

But I still have deep-seated affection for the Naruto characters, and with Bleach...with Bleach I do not.

That was an interesting realization for me, so I sat down thinking about why.

Watching Naruto go downhill was like watching a friend get into a downward spiral thanks to his own bad choices. You feel bad for him, and you try to help him as best you can, but he's taking this path with eyes wide open. You can only try and stay with him. In the end, even when he's emaciated and unrecognizable, he's still your friend.

Whereas Bleach was like watching someone who was once a friend get infested with alien brain-worms and turn into a roving zombie creature. At first you're horrified, then you grieve for the loss of your friend, then you're angry at the twisted, murderous monstrosity that has taken your friend's body. You want to take a pistol and end its existence with your own hands, before you can no longer remember your friend at all and you only recall the monster.

Yeah, that pretty accurately describes my feelings. I look back on Naruto and I think, "Man, I wish you made more sense."

I look back on Bleach and I think, "WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO BLEACH? BURN FOR YOUR SINS."

Asterion

1/1/2017 10:24:54 pm

I feel the same way, except I managed to delude myself with Bleach. It was (to me) the greatest of them in the beginning, then after Darth Aizen was revealed it all went to hell. The creativity with the zanpaktou, the superior art, and finally having a main character who was both competent and responsible felt too good to be true... and it was. Fast forward and the author of Naruto wrote himself into a place where he didn't know what to do with his creation while One Piece has come out as king. And Bleach... Bleach just has superior art.

Dave

12/31/2016 02:21:43 am

A Great elder vs Meng Hao from I Shall Seal the Heavens

Dave

12/31/2016 02:23:54 am

And I mean a great elder outside an iteration just to be clear XD

Tom

12/31/2016 04:34:04 am

So, probably too late, but for the lulz:

Krupp (Malazan) arrives in Aurelian Empire when Shera gets taken in by Gardener/ Calden by his mother.

This is not a deathmatch as such, but a "He has 15 years to arrange things such that the Elders gain no influence after the Emperor's death and the transition to the next system goes smoothly".

William Reed

12/31/2016 09:36:21 am

Lindon(or anyone else more fitting) versus Valinhall(the territory not the characters).

-I think he might get through a few rooms but no one is going to suspect that sofa.

Subhadeep Dutta

1/27/2017 07:53:27 am

Hi will ,

First of all . a big THANK YOU for sending me all the short stories. appreciate it so much

Secondly , always wondered how is Simon in his hand to hand combat. We saw that he is a pretty straight forward swordsman with simple and effective techniques with room for improvement. But how good of a hand to hand fighter is he ? Also since the cradle series is based on Wuxia fantasy are we going to see the character deploy hand to hand martial arts as mainly we have seen them as weapon specialists . Infact , there are several variations of Chinese martial arts from from which inspiration can be taken.

Lastly , in your personal opinion, if valin had not gone and slaughtered half the house then among Kai or Indirial who was the better fit to take up the reins of the house ?

I ask this because on some level I felt that Kai was a prodigy and much better than indirial and also Indirial for most of the time was a Yes man to the empire of Damasa.

Anyways , thanks again. Cheers !!!

Adam Dahlstedt

12/17/2018 04:04:26 am

Hey, im suprised nobody has brought up my biggest question. I assume this is not going to be answered but why not give it a shot!
Would be greatly appreciated if you answered, I love these types of discussions. Anyone can feel free to reply

1) Indirial, Kai, Denner, Kathrin, Simon, all in their prime (except for simon who is at end of CoL power level), what would their rankings be?

thanks Will, I love your books!

In which we ramble on.
And by we, I mean me.