Cradle Behind-the-Scenes: Intro

9/18/2020

In my last update, I promised you a release date for Wintersteel and some behind-the-scenes info about the rest of the Cradle series!

In case you missed it, Wintersteel is coming out (in all formats including audio) on October 6th! Pre-order begins September 22nd!

As for the behind-the-scenes info, I'll be going book by book and giving you an excerpt of a deleted scene, some trivia that didn't make it into the book, or a segment from my notes.

We'll be going Unsouled through Underlord to avoid any potential spoilers from Uncrowned or Wintersteel.

That process begins with Unsouled in just a few days, and then I'll do more info about the next book every couple of days up until the day of release!

But here's a little bonus fact for today: Wintersteel is only the second Cradle book to have an unused cover. We liked the art, but it didn't end up quite fitting our intentions, so we cut it.

And here it is, the original cover for Wintersteel...

-Will

93 Comments

Unmesh Sadawarte link

9/18/2020 11:00:44 am

Well, this is more realistic anyways... Better than that toy cover 🙄

Will link

9/18/2020 11:05:17 am

Too bad!

Shaun Stevens

9/18/2020 02:41:59 pm

Did you consider all the other covers “toyish?” Cause those are the badges they aren’t toys lol.

Someone

9/18/2020 05:39:35 pm

Idk... even people in the book look at it as childish. He is the only one wearing them because he couldn't as a kid... I feel they may be more toyish

Unmesh Sadawarte link

9/19/2020 01:35:52 am

No. All the other covers have a classic vibe to it.

Avinash

9/19/2020 08:29:20 am

The badges were cool and had a classical look
But the others like blackflame or ghostwater felt generic

Yosef Berg

9/18/2020 11:01:07 am

Ohh its a nice cover but I can see why you didn't use it. It seems a little to be like generic fantasy cover rather, than a Cradle cover and would seem out of place next to the other books.

Will link

9/18/2020 11:05:54 am

Yeah, it didn't line up exactly right with the others. And the new cover reflects the content of the book more accurately.

9/18/2020 11:08:49 am

The actual cover is so much better and fits the rest of the book covers better in my opinion.

Kevin

9/18/2020 11:11:03 am

This is a month earlier than I expected! Can’t wait!

Mashiara

9/18/2020 11:11:21 am

Personally, I like this picture more than the actual cover. Aesthetically, this is more beautiful. However the actual cover is better pattern wise and fits more with the overall scheme of the Cradle covers.

With that said, can’t wait for the book. Then be disappointed with myself because I would finish it quickly. Then reread it again. Lol.

Joseph

9/18/2020 01:42:27 pm

I agree totally

Brian S

9/18/2020 11:12:47 am

It's a nice piece of art. I like what the artist did with the snow effect. That being said, I believe that your remnant made a wise decision to use the other cover. It fits the theme of the Cradle series better.

This would make a pretty nice cover for a House of Blades novel though. I'm sure Simon is bored senseless by now, and seriously considering assassinating Lindon for stealing his spotlight.

Val

9/18/2020 11:12:50 am

Looks a little like Christmas?

Darren

9/18/2020 11:52:32 am

Alternate name for Wintersteel was frozen 3....

Jeff

9/18/2020 05:09:32 pm

Let it go, man.

Avinash

9/19/2020 08:33:14 am

While the cold didnt brother yerin anyway

I am stuck imaging yerin singing this song
But instead to building castles

She is alone after her masters death and killing the schools coming after her
While contemplating how lonely her life would be now.

This happens before she meets lindon

Kevin

9/18/2020 11:14:19 am

Alternate title: The Yerrin Advances

Avinash

9/19/2020 08:49:02 am

So since the winter sage is going to teach yerin,(most likely) and the sage is particularly emotional being

So do u guys think she might try to teach yerin and her blood-shadow not only the sword but how to express her emotions too.

Just imagine the sage siting in all seriousness with yerin and her shadow kneeling in front of her.

The sage starts going on about the importance to expressing ur feelings and emotions so that ur fiance dosent runsoff on u on ur wedding .

Yerin getting super embarrassed and sying this has nothing to do with her or the sacred arts , but her blood-shadow puts a hand on her mouth and listens entraped to the sage .

Well we know this cannot be since WILL is the enemy of romance

But still it would have been an awesome scene

Bill

9/7/2021 04:35:41 am

That would have been soooo funny.

Mason

9/18/2020 11:45:34 am

I prefer the new one by a lot. Love the common themes between covers & this looks too generic. Keep up the good work! Far out ahead as my favourite author & managed to convert 2 no readers to avid fans of yours.

Cornelius Arelius

9/18/2020 12:16:16 pm

Cheers and celebration!

StarDragon53

9/18/2020 12:16:56 pm

Hey Will I have a question about sacred artists do there needs such as food, water, sleep and even breathing become unnecessary for them in higher stages. We see Northstrider at the bottom of the ocean with no diving gear (Unsouled), Charity states that as an archlord she needs little sleep and can usually go without it (Uncrowned) and Lindon only seems to need madra to fuel his bodies healing and nothing else except when he advanced to iron and Eithan states that Lindon's body burned through his fat reserves in his advancement and if he didn't get food in a bit his body would consume itself but we don't see him having eating binges later in the series (Soulsmith). So this all seems to imply that eventually a sacred artist spirit will eventually, if they continue to advance, become strong enough to support the body independently to the point that psychological needs become irrelevant.

Joseph

9/18/2020 01:54:35 pm

In one of the Deathmatch podcasts, Northstrider vs Alin, Northstrider punches so fast that it ignites all the air in a sealed room consuming all the O2. Northstrider ruminates that in a month when he needs to take another breath he will see just how unbreakable the walls really are. Also Suriel mentioned in various ways how she can limit or eliminate all physical responses and exist in the void, but not idefinitly so I would suppose that some physical needs can be eliminated ie sleep but certain metabolic requirements while they can be extremely limited can not be entirely ignored, at least at our level of understanding. It has bothered me a little bit about something like a blood forged body should need a ton of calories to maintain. I kinda passed it off as Wills minimalist style and the flow he goes for doesn't want to bog us down with all the meals and whatnot needed to survive. That being said "crabs the spiders of the sea" is one of my favorite lines in the whole series.

avinash

9/18/2020 02:03:14 pm

@joseph
yeah forgot about the month limit
but that does bring up another point u need air/breath to speak too
and since he takes 1 a month , i wonder if that's why he often speaks in mono-syllabus

regarding the blood-forged body
the primary fuel is not food , its madra
i think the body can substitute the energy gained from food with the energy gained from madra
so he needs not eat a lot, he needs to cycle a lot, but since his cores are as deep as lakes , he only really needs food when he empties both cores

avinash

9/18/2020 01:55:58 pm

@stardragon53
i think i was mentioned somewhere the goal of sacred art is to nurture a remanant in ur soul/spirit
so as u advance u star to refine ur body and soul to a higher level and at every level ur body becomes more optimised
since madra is more effective than food , the body starts using it
kindof like upgrading form thermal plant to nuclear plant

or it can be also said that as one advances the body adapts and gets upgraded
so whats necessity for a copper becomes a luxury/vice for a Lord

like how a swimmer can hold his/her breath for 3-5 min but normal people can for 1-2 min

EasilyAmusedEldrazi link

9/18/2020 12:25:57 pm

If you ever publish hardcover versions of these, this would be a nice inside-cover image, or maybe book jacket art

avinash

9/18/2020 01:48:09 pm

personally

i am very unhappy with the covers

i know, i know
we are not supposed to judge by it , but come-on everyone judges it and why shouldn't they
after all first impressions matters
i mean have u seen the omnibus editions (or set box, whatever its called) now just compare it to blackflame, or any other cover witch is not a badge
The normal or first edition covers feel generic in front of the omnibus

I'm especially unhappy with the uncrowned one
somehow I imagined a heavy set gold crown like something a warrior-king would use in battle, but instead it was a delicate tiara or diadem
but hey that's me and as in everything likes are subjective and what i didn't care for might have rang true with others

on a side note i absolutely loved the omnibus cover aside from Eithan
he is described as handsome but came of looking like an old witch/hag.

Nick S

9/18/2020 02:43:18 pm

That was Eithan? I thought it was Mercy but they got the hands wrong. And the hair. But it turns out dude looks like a lady...

Avinash

9/18/2020 03:16:59 pm

@Nick s
Us even I thought that
Then I saw the broom and the golden hair

Tommy

9/21/2020 01:01:15 am

quick tip with these kind of books, never look at the art. It will absolutely ruin your mental image.

avinash

9/18/2020 02:36:01 pm

Regarding DreadGods

i don't remember if its been discussed before but

I GOT A THEORY

remember how none of the dreadgods been killed, but a lot of monarchs were killed by them

also remember the case of badges lindon found in the transcendent ruins, eight of them

so bear with me

we assumed that it was
copper iron jade gold lord sage herald monarch

with me still

now comes the crazy parts

sage is not a seprate advancement stage, its more a mark of honor for those who create their own path
(eithan mentioned sages as strongest archlords)

so i suggest that the Dreadgods are not immortal or invincible but rather they are a stage above monarch

below are the points in favor of the theory

1.we have seen people fighting people above their stage, but rarely killing them or not easily (lindon fought underlords at truegold)
hey its not like jades killing a sage but still . . . . . . .

2.the rest of the dreadgods rose to protect the phoenix in the dread war which implies that they can be killed
after all a bunch of truegolds (yerin and her shadow) almost killed shiro
and its not like a bunch of jades killing a sage but still . . . . . .

3.the dreadgods have a thing for hunger madra and the souce for that is a singular being as mentioned in the notes from the ruins,(possibly ozriel), who could sense his decendants from halfway across the world (which is to say the whole world),but the last aurelius monarch couldnt (as eithan clearly mentioned only the founder could so that) so he was likely at that level and the dreadgods rose due to him or by him (remember penance)

4. we know a lot of technology and knowledge was lost so maybe no one knows or remember the stage above it

5. the monarchs still cycle (northstride kills and absorbs dragons),
they have already refused ascending so there has to be a stage above monarch they are trying to reach but are unable to maybe sue to lack of knowledge.

6. the badges
copper iron jade gold lord herald monarch god

now i know this theory might be a bit out there , but hey atlest its not a bunch of jades killing a sage

1.a sage who should have had a iron body(the strenght body that to forged in soulfire) that couldnt be pierced by jades or golds
as only his advancment was sealed not his body(although yerin did mention vaguely about body being tied to stage of advancment, but hers dosent lose its effectiveness when shes runs out of madra )
2.had reaction time way above archlords (being a sage and on sword path)
3.had a ton of archlord soulfire
4. could possibly access the WAY (or maybe only charity can)
5. what ever happened to his void key, how come yerin took his sword but not the key
6. do i need to go on at this point.

Will Eccles link

9/18/2020 03:26:17 pm

Your theory could be right... but I always thought that the 8 badges he found went: Copper, Iron, Jade, Gold, Underlord, Overlord, Archlord, Monarch... Sage and Herald are just two different tiers at the peak of Archlord so you wouldn't necessarily need a new badge for them. Just my thoughts..

Avinash

9/18/2020 03:36:11 pm

@will excels
I am pretty sure will mention it before
Heralds are a different stage after Lords and before Monarchs.
Sages are the archlords who created their own path.

So copper iron jade gold Lord Herald monarch and maybe god.

Karvak

9/18/2020 03:57:55 pm

Now idk about ur theory

My theory is that the titain. Or turtle has is absorbing the mardra as its sleeping
And only monarch and higher are not effected by it to such a degree

Or at least something is

It could be that its like how air pressure works there are high point and low pionts or magma
There has to be low point in order to have it cycle to be a high point somewhere else ( if that makes any sense.

Also because I'm a....

Harold is under archlord (uncrowded ...where after Lindon I took the test ... Justice? is freaking out cause of lindons potential and doesnt stand to respected Charity cause of her rank.

If been want the upper ranks clearified because of this

Avinash

9/18/2020 04:03:00 pm

@karvak
Sorry but I didn't get what u meant to say about the wandering Titan (the dreadgod shown in suriels vision)

And justice is not a Herald
Fury (charities father ) is the herald.
And he is above her.

Avinash

9/18/2020 04:41:04 pm

The best example of lower stage fighting higher stage is the Eight Man Empire
8 Heralds together make 1 monarch I.e.they can fight on equal footing and maybe kill one
That's the story of the Dread war 8~10 monarch attacked the bleeding phoenix and maybe would have killed her too if her brothers haven't came to her defense.

Karvak

9/18/2020 06:29:05 pm

Yes I did mean the the dreadgod....and thank you (Fury, justice is. Is the brother.... Couldn't remember).... Cant reply to a reply for some reason

Karvak

9/18/2020 07:05:23 pm

@Avinash
"That night, Akura Charity entered Justice's office to find him slumped over his desk, drinking. When he did not rise to greet her and show proper respect to a Sage, she knew he was truly disturbed... Justice, a distant cousin of hers, had reached Archlord before she was born and been stuck there ever since." ( Uncrowned)

I'm not properly citing my kindle list location at 244

Unless Will Wight say he is above her and that that quote is a pilot error on his part .... I believe she is above him in ranking

Avinash

9/18/2020 09:41:00 pm

@karvak

Bro for some reason u seem to be confusing fury with justice

Justice was mention in starting of uncrowned he is just an ordinary archlord and the first gatekeeper .(he is literally mentioned just in that chapter)

Akura Fury is the herald of Akura clan(loc 491, 894,920,921,957)
He is the father of Akura charity(loc 897,921)
He is the strongest of Malices child(loc 921)
He is Akura malices favoured child because he is the only one to ever make it to herald(loc 921)

Avinash

9/19/2020 12:25:38 pm

Small correction

12 monarch attacked the wandering titan
The turtle warrior,one from suriels vision and emriss scene.

Only 2 survived , the dragon monarch possible one of them and maybe emriss the other.

So kinda like the 8man empire could fight and kill 1 monarch but if 3 more show up they dead.
So if the dread gods are indeed God(above monarch stage)
The titan might have been in danger of dying due to which his siblings came to help him.

Avinash

9/20/2020 12:18:57 pm

Penance
The hound called it weapon of God's and that it was forger before ozriel ascended .
If ozriel was at god stage then it stands to reason that he could craft a weapon capable of killing gods .
I.e. a weapon to kill dread-gods

Tommy

9/21/2020 01:07:15 am

I thought sages were archlords who could use the way and thus manipulate space because sages are the being lowest who can create gatestones.

Avinash

9/21/2020 09:05:57 am

@tommy
Not all sages have authority of space
It probay has to do with their icon
Since space was charities speciality, she was faster at retreiving mercy than a herald.
And the winter sage coulnt teleport , she had to fly.
Also I think sensing the way is not sage specific, since fury can do it but he wasn't a sage .

Avinash

9/18/2020 03:37:23 pm

@will eccles
Why would lords have 3 badges when gold had a single for all three stages

Caleb Chamberlain link

9/18/2020 04:47:02 pm

I like the old cover, BUT if you kept it, I think you'd have to change the name.

Something like, "A Dreadgod Christmas," or "Christmas in Iteration 110."

Because that cover totally evokes a very Christmas-y vibe.

David

9/18/2020 06:32:44 pm

As someone who reads only from kindle in the past few years, due to the weight of 1000 books being enough to collapse my office floor, I have never looked at the cover all that much. Not to mention that my writing skills suck and that previous sentence was either too long or a run on, but I can't be bothered to edit it.

Once again I will try to find a way to make the next book last longer than 18 hours which has been the average of the past 3 books. Sadly I have been reading a lot of wuxia lately and have ended up increasing my reading speed rather than slowing down.

Still I am glad it is coming and I will be ready with a full 24 oz mug of coffee when it downloads on the 6th.

Avinash

9/19/2020 12:32:58 pm

@david
Not to be a Sheldon
Or a presence providing verbal corrections

But as a civil engineer it kept nagging me
Trust me bro I tried to not reply.

A paperback novel weighs around 200~400gms.
So 1000 would be 200 to 400 kg or 2~5 people
So ur office floor is probable safe.
But emriss thanks u for using the digital editions and thus, sparing her kin .

Rgp

9/18/2020 07:00:20 pm

Excellent on my birthday

Vishal

9/18/2020 10:49:50 pm

Interesting cover but I like how the chosen cover sits with the rest of the books. Very clean!

@Avinash
On your theory of the badges, Cooper, iron, jade, gold, lord...I get it till here...from here on out, I vaguely remember that you could choose to stay on and move to monarch or ascend the world. Then you have Titans (remember the Titan Suriel saves?) and who knows what else Will has thought up...
If we assume that the badges are only specific to cradle then we’re still missing some data on the progression paths?!...which leaves copper,iron,jade,gold as the first set...underlord, overlord, archlord, herald as the second. Badges then lose any meaning?

Avinash

9/18/2020 11:19:34 pm

@vishal
Ascending can be done after archlord and herald
That seprates them from the energy system (madra/vital aura based) and they are removed from the world.

Monarch refuse to acend and stay in the system
The titan(that suriel showed) is one of the dreadgod(the wondering titan), which i proposed is the stage after monarch i.e. God
The same way corrupted sacred beast are called dread beast . So corrupted god are called dreadgods.

It makes no sense that lord had badge for all sub stages, when gold didnt dad that , also that leaves no badge for the monarch stage.
So
Copper
Iron
Jade
Gold
Lord
Herald
Monarch
God

Vishal

9/19/2020 01:51:48 am

@Avinash,
You make a compelling argument on why there shouldn’t be separate badges for lord stages. I’m still a bit sceptical on monarch being part of the badges. This is because London’s path does not take him to Monarch (I forget where this was mentioned) which suggests that Monarch is not a mandatory path. In this case, is a badge justified for monarch when a sacred artist may chose to bypass that path altogether?
Also, I recall that somewhere it was mentioned (Ghostwater?) that different stages of gold are only different by the power contained and lowgold to truegold is not such a change. However, underlord to overlord and archlord seems to have a wider gulf which is not dependent on pure power alone (I may be totally off on this one) so they could actually signify different badges...
Whatever be the case, discussing this is exciting nevertheless. Thank you, Will, for immersing us in this wonderful world!

Avinash

9/19/2020 03:16:21 am

@vishal
The badges are for the general path and not for Lindon specifically,which goes up to Monarch(that we know for sure)
It might go up to God
Which will fit the 8th badge and might be in the name Dread-Gods, like Dread-beast.

Acending from the world is a diversion or separation from the path of cradle, i.e. sacred arts.

Like how Li marduk acended and returned but was still an archlord at best(marduk being archlord was confirmed by will)

Aethyrah

9/23/2020 12:54:07 pm

The titles or names that the members of the differing Courts of the Abidan are all based on the name of the Judge and their abilities.

Makiel,The Hound
Gadrael, the Titan
Darandiel, the Ghost
Telariel, the Spider
Razael, the Wolf
Suriel, the Phoenix
Zakariel, the Fox
Ozriel, the Reaper
Adriel, the Creator

Titan(s) - defender(s)
Hound(s) - supervise the flow of Fate
Ghost(s) - supervise the destruction and creation of Iterations
Spider(s) - intelligence network
Wolf(Wolves) - combat force
Phoenix - restoration
Fox(es) - space

And I believe there was only one Reaper, Ozriel. So the titles you see for members of the Abidan Courts aren't part of the sacred arts system. They only denote the Court those members belong to and their abilities and uses of the Way.

Vishal

9/19/2020 03:37:10 am

@Avinash
Yes, I see what you are saying. We can reasonably assume that Lindon will rise above archlord even after ascension and Monarch not being in his path means that he goes through a different path. However, if you are saying that he moves past the sacred art paths after ascension then monarch being a badge seems correct. Look forward to that getting cleared up in the future...

Avinash

9/19/2020 08:27:03 am

@vishal
Ya that what i meant
The badges represent the path of cradle (sacred arts)
Lindon might ascend after lord or after herald
Or he might do so after monarch
We know that current monarch have rejected acension
That dosent necessarily mean monarch cant ascend.
We have to remember he has to fight the dreadgods and he need to be atlest a monarch to be able to do that(i mean technical he could do so before, its not like a bunch of jades didnt kill a sage before)
He might even go above monarch and then ascend
Or he might ascend right now
Its all speculation on my part,
We just have to wait and watch, cause unless WILL decides to weigh in, this theory will not be proved or disproved for 3~6 books .

Vishal

9/19/2020 11:39:11 pm

@Avinash
Well, we do know that monarch is not in London’s path. Just find it a little strange that he will not ‘collect’ all the badges hence my doubts about monarch being a badge!
Ascension will be later, after he returns to sacred valley I presume. However, assuming that he (along with Yerin, Eithen, Mercy) is there to correct the failings of the Abidan court, maybe he does come back after ascension...the rule about not coming back does in fact belong to the court so these guys may carve their own path and rules after all!
If Will does read our discussion someday, I can only imagine him grinning / shaking his head on how tangentially off we are (or not)! :-)

Vishal

9/19/2020 11:42:53 pm

Also, on the bit about a bunch of jaded killing a sage; remember one needs to die to ascend! We don’t know how that really works; maybe you still leave a remnant behind! Remember that Ozriel died in the labyrinth before ascending! Hope Will answers the whole thing in Wintersteel and the prologue won’t just be a teaser!

Avinash

9/20/2020 04:17:12 am

@vishal
Ya I thought that too that one needs to die to ascend but I think Will shot that theory down
It was around blackflame or skysworn release.

Eithan Arelius

9/19/2020 04:57:14 am

I don't understand all the hate in the comment sections about Will's choice of cover art for the series. I think that each book is perfectly represented by each cover art and wouldn't take anything else for them. As they fit the cradle theme perfectly I think that people who are criticizing his book covers should remember ONE important thing, they are HIS books, not YOUR books, or even MY books. So, if you want to be a fan for this man's (whoops) REMNANT's work than accept everything that comes with it, especially when its GOOD. So stop filling the comments with negativity. Also, have a nice day!

Avinash

9/19/2020 08:17:42 am

@eithan aurelius

U sir, have clearly not seen the omnibus edition covers.
Stretch ur bloodline ability to amazon and see

Also i did say that likes are subjective so if u liked it kudos, but i didnt like the individual covers(except for the badges one )

I dont know about others but iam not spewing hate iam just giving my honest opinion, and WILL will be the first one to tell u that while they are HIS books , he writes them for US and, has always asked about his readers opinions.
As i said above , first impression matters and even more now when he has dead tree editions.
U and i know about the book's story and might not care much about the cover , but to NEW READERS covers would play a vital role in picking up the series.

Eithan Arelius

9/19/2020 08:43:37 am

@Avinash, I was not aiming the comment toward a respectful fan such as you, more towards that section of the fan base who are less-respectable and only complain (People who I will not name). Nevertheless I am not one to dwell on unhappy thoughts, so I return your kudos and tip my hat off to you, sir.

Eithan Arelius

9/19/2020 08:45:16 am

And if I can speak honestly, the thing that drew me in to Unsouled was the cover, I liked the simplicity. xD

Coldsteel

9/19/2020 09:13:51 am

Will, why did you set restrictions on your Facebook page so that now you need to login in order to view your home page?

I do not have a Facebook account and starting today I can no longer view your Facebook page.

Sam Wight

9/21/2020 01:48:49 pm

Hey there, I'm Will's brother and I help run his Facebook account. After reading this comment I went and double checked that we hadn't changed any privacy settings and sure enough they've been the same for over three months.

Facebook did do a "general privacy update" late last week, so that might have been something they changed that we have no control over. I've made the page as public as I can. Sorry about that!

Vinayak Sudhapalli

9/19/2020 12:15:54 pm

Where can I pre-order the wintersteel paperback/ audiobook from?

patrick

9/21/2020 01:32:21 pm

The paperback will be on sale at Amazon on October 6, and the audio book can come from Audible or Amazon. Preorders for audio start September 22.

Chris

9/21/2020 03:14:53 pm

It is available now. I have pre-ordered. Bring it on

Will Eccles link

9/21/2020 09:07:56 pm

I too have pre-ordered my copy!!!

Coco

9/19/2020 04:03:25 pm

You could re-release a special collectors volume set with alternate covers. When you bust open the USA today book ranking list open next month, you can do whatever.

Decorus

9/19/2020 07:32:23 pm

Sage is a person who can use the Icon of the way.
I’m pretty sure Ethan is the Sage of 1000 eyes.
It’s likely Yerrin is on the verge of becoming a Sage at Overlord thanks to her Master’s Remnant.

Icon of Sword or Dragon is what made the Sage of Endless Sword and Northstrider was probably the Sage of the Devouring Deep before he became a Monarch.

Ethan, Yerrin and Lindon are not going to ascend in the traditional sense as they need to sidestep the rules of Abiddan to break free of that trap.

Avinash

9/19/2020 08:53:09 pm

@decorus
EITHAN is not a sage yet.
In his own words sages are the most powerful Archlords. And he has to be underlord to competete.
Also if he was the sage pretty sure a lot of people would have recognised him, all sages are famous to some extent.
Cassius mentioned how a moment of yerins masters time was worth more than eithans whole of training time.
Northstrider mentioned that any one with anyone with any authority of their own could sense yerins use of sword icon and charity said to her father how a undelord could use it at all, which implies that all archlords and heralds can sense icons.

So it could be like soulfire, that all lords have it.
Am pretty sure that eithan has on multiple occasions

Avinash

9/19/2020 08:55:04 pm

Am pretty sure that eithan has on multiple occasions said that he is nowhere near yerins master.

Also if he was a sage he could have protected his ship from saphora or atleast gotten them to the court on time

Karvak

9/20/2020 08:45:32 pm

@Decorus
Possible...I doubt 1000 eyes icon is a thing...
On thie topic heres my thought

the ones at the very top are the ones that inbody the icons Suriels the phoenix cause the one closests to that icon

Which mean the icons possible known are phoenix, hound, reaper..... (Failing to remember others)

Of course known are only sword and dragon

Avinash

9/20/2020 10:29:14 pm

@karvak
1000 eye is more related to his bloodline ability.

And the only confirmed icons are sword(yerin,adama)
Dragon(northstrider)
And possibly space(reginan shen , charity)

Avinash

9/22/2020 04:07:35 am

@karvak
It might be but there's a problem with that
the first generation of abidan rose from cradle , so they accesses the way and icons before there was a phoenix , hound ,etc

Or maybe the divisions were named after the individual icons of the first gen abidan in which case u theory will hold true

Karvak

9/26/2020 06:43:24 pm

@Avinash

Your " Or maybe..." is what I ment

some guy

9/20/2020 03:37:44 am

No disrespect to the artist, but I'm glad you didn't use that cover. It looks exactly like the generic book cover my eyes would instinctively ignore in the Amazon catalog.

Rad Eccles

9/20/2020 06:46:55 am

...What happened to Remnant Will? I think this is an imposter.

isaac

9/20/2020 09:10:46 am

can you tell me every book on your shelf please im runing out of books to read.

Bewildered

9/20/2020 09:30:08 pm

Since folk mentioned icons here, I have to admit I'm curious as to what they are. Yerrin touched hers in her duel with Lindon - I'm guessing she'd've lost had she not been able to draw on it's power. That she touched it as an Underlord however sent shockwaves through The Powers That Be in attendance.

Note I need to reread the series but I'm holding off 'til next month so I can read all 8 in 'one go'. Apologies if I mention\suggest anything spectacularly at odds with books to date.

Speculation in a Reddit thread (not somewhere I usually visit but I did a quick Duck for icon info) posited that Sage rather than being a power tier is a reflection of skill - the ability to use\manifest an icon. That would mean Yerrin is on the cusp of sagehood even though she's still only an Underlord. She'd likely need to grow her power to benefit significantly from said icon though. At least her path is pretty linear, and she'll likely hit Overlord by the contest ends.

The big question to my mind is what does this mean for Lindon? The icon bit not the bit about getting kicked out of the contest. He's been pursuing a fairly brute force approach - none of the esoteric pointers that Eithan has given to Yerrin. Oh I've no doubt he'll pick them up quickly IF introduced to them, but will he be? And given his twin powers - Pure + Black Dragon, or triple (+ Hunger) if his arm is factored in, what would that mean for his icon potential? Can a person tap more than one icon? Are some icons more complex than others?

Also, and this is something likely clarified in Book 8, one of those remaining in the contest isn't eligible - she's a monarch not an Underlord. Lindon thought she was the Queen but has been told otherwise. If it's discovered he knows she's not eligible what then? Sure her powers have been temporarily constrained, but is monarch status purely a matter of power, or does skill factor into it?

Oh final thought. Is there any relationship between icons, and the division of mantles for the Abidan Judges? Might Yerrin for instance be walking in the way of Ozriel, Lindon the path of Adriel, or an equivalent?

Avinash

9/20/2020 10:36:29 pm

@bewildered
Northstrider clearly said undelords couldn't sense the way clearly enough to manifest an icon, and it showed yerins future potential.

We still dont know if icons are specific to sages
Fury can sense one and he was not a sage.
It might be like soulfie is needed for lord and truegilds can forge it.
So icon or authority is needed for archlord and above

Lindons ixon will be a dragon most likely.
Cause i dont dnow about pure but blacflame=dragon or destruction
Hunger=any (northstrider has a dragon icon cause he uses hunger to absobe dragon)

Avinash

9/21/2020 09:08:31 am

@bewildered
I think it was stated by will that sages are those who form their own path

Robin

9/21/2020 02:04:20 am

So excited to read this, have been hoping all pandemic to get to read it soon. I actually just got done rereading uncrowned again when I saw this. I'm looking forward to it and your future work as well!

David

9/21/2020 12:03:10 pm

I just hope Lindon gets to absorb the blackflame remnant from the tournament and gets a tail as a goldsign.

Avinash

9/21/2020 03:19:04 pm

@David
Pretty sure that remnants are only absorbed to advance to gold .
He could use the remnant to forge equipment or prosthetic But can't absorb it at his level.
I mean if he wanted a tail he could attach the remnants tail to his body
But don't think it's likely

Decorus

9/21/2020 10:50:35 pm

Ethan is an Underlord who is way stronger then any Underlord should be. He also guided Yerrin to the sword Icon which should not be something he knows how to do. Then there is his spiritual sense that can cover continents.He literally could see everything the Patriach did. He also is constantly hiding his actual power. This points to him being a Sage possibly when he was born. He can’t lead Yerrin down the Endless Sword, but I’m fairly certain he is leading her to the sword Icon. I’m pretty sure he has the Icon of Sight.
I’m also pretty sure his bet that didn’t pay off is what nearly destroyed his family.

Avinash

9/22/2020 03:44:37 am

@devours
Yes eithan is strong for an underlord (absurdly so)
But it doesn't mean he has a icon , he may or may not
Teaching heroin is different than having his own, remember he was a member of the core family , famous enough that reginan shen personally knows him, he could have been the disciple of the sage , Herald or monarch and that's how he knows about the icons and so he told yerin to do what he does or practices ., which caused her to touch the way faintly.

This isn't wuxia where some are innate sage or monarch . Every one is born below copper, even dragons.(I think),

EITHAN never said that he could sense th whole continent only that the patriarch could,even Tiberius(the aurelius monarch couldn't do that).
Think if he could do that he would have sensed jaishu s plan even when he was in the wasteland. And would have caught on that he didn't kill jaishou the first time.

His range is in miles I think cassius mentioned it or at most a city.

Brian

9/21/2020 08:55:30 pm

It's up!

Aristotle

9/22/2020 12:48:05 am

Since it seems like everyone is posting their speculation here so that we can point at it later and say "See, I was right all along", I guess I'll do that too.

Icons are roughly equivalent to Plato's Theory of Forms. Compare a tree branch to a rapier, and ask which one is more of a sword. The answer is obvious. Just as the rapier is something that is more a sword than the branch, the Form of a sword is the thing which is most a sword, the perfect and purest ideal of 'swordness' to which all swords are mere imitations. Plato postulated that the Forms are more than just thoughts, but instead exist beyond our material world and transcend space and time. Due to their level of existence, they could not be perceived or understood by the mundane senses; Plato speculated that only the mind itself might be able to touch the Forms. He considered the mental grasping and understanding of the forms to be the goal and mark of enlightenment.

On Cradle, the Forms, or Icons, exist within the Way, beyond the material iterations of existence. At a certain level of spiritual power and true understanding of something, a sacred artist has the potential to use their spirit to sense beyond their world, allowing them to perceive the Icons in a way the Greeks never could. A Sage is one who can understand and grasp the power of an Icon, lending its perfection and might to their techniques.

The dream tablet of the Sword Sage's technique was described as creating 'the ideal sword', which seemed like a bit of a giveaway.

I'm not too certain about the nature of Heralds. They're described as being above Sages/Archlords in progression. Given that no distinction is ever mentioned between a Herald with Sage abilities and a Herald without them, we can assume that Heralds categorically possess the powers of a Sage. Since being a Sage is an optional step before becoming a Herald, we can also assume that the enlightenment which makes an Archlord a Sage is not a prerequisite to becoming a Herald. Knowing these two things, I'd speculate that Sages can sense and make use of the Way due to a mixture of power, understanding, and enlightenment, while Heralds have cultivated such spiritual power that their spiritual sense is at a level that the more subtle understandings of a Sage are no longer necessary in order for them grasp the Way.

Avinash

9/22/2020 03:58:50 am

@Aristotle
While it makes a lot of sense and is really interesting to think about(in real life ) the whole concept of Tapasya or meditation (in Hinduism) is to focus it entire mind and consciousness on a single topic , like on the oohmm sound.to achieve a higher state of existence called enlightenment

But let's talk about cradle

See it was confirmed by Will that sages are those who create their own path more like researchers than simple users.

They create their own path an devel to its depth.

Now it could be that only sages can use the icon or way . Or it could be that using icon or authority is the mark or requisite to advance from archlords to heralds monarchs gods.

Like how truegold could forge soulfire but couldn't use it but all lords can
It might be archlords can sense icons but only sages and heralds(and above can use it).

See we know that northstrder has dragon icon
Shen has touches of authority over space
But it's never mentioned that they were sage at any point.

For the matter of fact there is never a mention of a sage advancing past archlords.

So maybe sages depart from the normal ranking and start using the way instead of sacred art.

But I do remember reading a line "or wherever the sages and heralds go instead of advancing to monarch", this implies they can advance to monarch or ascend.

Decorus

9/22/2020 08:08:22 am

North Strider’s path the Devouring Deep is a unique path he created combining his bloodline ability and blood Madra with Hunger Madra he obtained from the underground. It’s fairly primitive techniques that utilize a touch of the dragon Icon. So yeah pretty sure North Strider was a Sage before he became a Monarch.
It seems Sage and Herald are two seperate paths that lead to Monarch. My thought is that while most Sages don’t achieve that until Archlord, it’s entirely possible that Ethan and Yerrin are both exceptions. Also Ethan has proven his Spiritual sense could go as far as the western wastes from Black Flame city to be able to know about what was going on with the rising of the ruins. He was also watching Yerrin and Lindon for at least a week and came specifically to recruit them. He also knew the Sage of the Endless sword was dead... That indicates he had been watching since the valley...

Then there was the watching every single attemp the Patriarch tried to kill him and even the theft of the Arcstone... That is not the range of a city and it’s way more then a country... I’m pretty sure the attempt on the family in Blackflame city only happened, because Ethan had been focusing on Yerrin and Lindon rather then what was going on in the city.

I ate my head

9/23/2020 06:12:53 pm

Yo, i know this is about a whole other thing so yeah. At the end of soulsmith Linden takes the binding, the badges, and scripted black stones. I know where the binding and the badges go. What happened to the stones?

In which we ramble on.
And by we, I mean me.